The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Yesterday at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 238 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#56873 - 10/01/05 08:12 PM Outlets in counter top.
dmattox Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Anaheim, CA
The project I'm working on the owner really wants some outlets face up on counter tops on cabinets in his conference room. I intially steared him away from it.

Is there actually a code issue installing outlets face up? How about installing a box used for floor boxes w/ the covers that seal the devices?

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#56874 - 10/01/05 08:33 PM Re: Outlets in counter top.
togol Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 426
Loc: NW In. USA
406.4(E) receptacles Shall not be installed in a face-up position...


the little I know about flanged outlets, ....the back-box is pretty deep , I don't think they are suitable for cabinets, unless you have the space below the cabinet top to accomodate the box and any flex you will use.

Also, you will need a trim carp. to set the back box below the finished top as the flanges are designed for use on carpet, and will not sit flush .


[This message has been edited by togol (edited 10-01-2005).]
_________________________
Tom

Top
#56875 - 10/02/05 03:57 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
dmattox Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Anaheim, CA
Thanks for the reply togol, 406.4(E) is for dwelling units, this is a commercial building, is there anything that prohibits this for a commercial building?

I like to use those two gang walker duct boxes, which are adjustable from 0 to 1/2" or so so that shouldnt be a problem.

Top
#56876 - 10/02/05 05:58 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
togol Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 426
Loc: NW In. USA
ooops, I missed that .
The Walker boxes that you will use, have some rather misleading info in their catalog, I am guessing you have picked out the one that states it is for wood floors........, I made the same mistake in a church with those same boxes,.
They are indeed for wood floors , just not wood FINISHED floors, you cannot adjust the "carpet ' flange snug against the wood without recessing the box into your table ....of in my case the...I cannot recall the correct name of the part of the church where the altar rest ... steps .. I had 56 boxes to install .
We decided to mount the boxes onto the subfloor, and ordered longer adjusting screws from Walker ( at a $1 a piece)to allow the brass flange to rest on the 3/4' finished floor....it was a real PITA
_________________________
Tom

Top
#56877 - 10/02/05 06:15 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
dmattox Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Anaheim, CA
We use something similar to these togol:


The ones we get are rated for concrete and they are often installed too low when the owner changes their mind about the flooring. When that happens I dont use their adjusting screws and just drill through the metal bases and use nuts and bolts. Works great.

I'm sure I can get the install to look nice. I'm just worried about any code issues. But since its a "dry" counter top, I can't see any. And it for sure will get less moisture than the floor boxes that get the mop going over it once a week.

Top
#56878 - 10/02/05 06:17 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
You can put the outlets in face up if they insist.

How fancy of a room is this, do they also need DATA connections?



This is just on example of whats available if your customer wants to spend some money.

Check out this web site.
http://cableorganizer.com/pop-n-plug/

We have some customers that are willing to pay for these pop up connections.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#56879 - 10/02/05 06:25 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
dmattox Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Anaheim, CA
Those looked cool iwire, until I saw the price!

Ouch, hehe.

I'll present him with the options and let him decide. Thanks guys.

Top
#56880 - 10/02/05 06:35 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Yeah, I think you could get them for less (or ones like them) through a supply house but no, they are not cheap by any means.

Most customers do not want to spend that much.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#56881 - 10/02/05 08:01 AM Re: Outlets in counter top.
togol Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 426
Loc: NW In. USA
dmattox, yep thems the ones, the church folks made a last minute change , originally the outlets were placed in the risers of the steps ,but "people would see them" so into the floor they went .
we wanted to tap the boxes and use longer bolts but the FM and the AHJ were having kittens about the floor construction and absolutely dis-allowed any mods to everything in the floor, including these damn boxes.

those units that iwire has are pretty cool though
_________________________
Tom

Top
#56882 - 10/02/05 03:20 PM Re: Outlets in counter top.
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
That 406.4E cite was misleading....the "countertops" referred to are kitchen countertops, and other places likely to get wet. Not usually the case with a desk top!

A similar prohibition would apply to lab benches, etc.

That said, I see several attractive alternatives already posted here! :-)

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals