The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Today at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 100 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#56663 - 09/28/05 01:07 PM FPE breakers and home inspection
Jps1006 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 609
Loc: Northern IL
I got a call to look at correcting a home inspectors list on a realtor's sale. One line item the inspector mentions is the FPE panel. What do you guys do for these? The HI (Home inspector)'s job is to normally raise an issue and then say "have qualified electrican make recommendation". Basically saying "This doesn't look good, but I'm not qualified to know for sure".

What can I do but offer up facts?

The equipment passed standards at the time of installation.

Most people would agree (myself included) that there is more of hazard present with this panel in your house than with a different brand.

I can't say that the this panel specically is a hazard or not. I can recommend it be changed, but other than that I can't say it a manditory change like I could for an NEC violation.

First question: Agree or disagree with the above? Any additions?

Second question: If I recommend and don't require replacement, do I then obstain from the small repairs to the panel like replace exposed romex etc.?

Problem is, she's a friend of my Mom's. Regular customer and I say, "must be replaced if I touch it". Don't really care if I am helpful or not in their eyes (care if I'm helpful, but less concerned of if they think I'm helpful) but when it gets a little tricky, don't want to come off the wrong way.

Thanks for listening, typing this has helped me think this through. Still interested in comments.

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#56664 - 09/28/05 01:23 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
maintenanceguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/01
Posts: 303
Loc: Southern NJ, USA
FPE's were never recalled. But the stablock breakers have a reputation for loosening over time and overheating, sometimes catching fire. Since there was no recall, the consumer products safety people didn't think the data suggested emminent danger.

Is the hazard higher than with other panels, probably a little but there's always some risk with electricity.

If they're willing to pay for something to be done, I'd think checking breakers with an ir thermometer under load would be right, maybe looking for signs of overheating at the busses.

But most importantly, put it in writing that you don't know what will happen tomorrow or the next day, just what it looked like today.

Just my free advice...worth every penny.

Top
#56665 - 09/28/05 01:39 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
From what I see of home inspectors, the customer would be better off just calling a qualified electrical professional in the first place. They are going to look until they find something, just to justify their job, then it will need further evaluation.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#56666 - 09/28/05 02:13 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
sandsnow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Irvine, CA, USA
Do a search here and at the Mike Holt site. This has been discussed ad infinitum. You will find links to CPSC stuff, horror stories, etc.

With that you should be able to make a call you can believe in.

Some insurance companies will not insure a house with an FPE service. Previous is second hand info.

If the exposed romex is a violation, I would think it would need to be corrected, service change or not.
_________________________
Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

Top
#56667 - 09/28/05 08:49 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 727
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Here is what I do. I tell them the FPE panels may have issues, and I tell them to go online and do a search on Federal Pacific. This way they are the ones to decide if it should be replaced or not. (Of course if the panel is obviously deteriorated we don't get this far). Once they do the research, they usually call for a replacement. And everyone is happy.

Top
#56668 - 09/29/05 05:38 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
I would do the same thing as BigB. I would tell the HO that the FPE panels were never offically recalled, The panels are now on an "Obsolete" list for this type of panel. You can still get replacement breakers here (NJ)for about triple the price of regular breakers. They have a bad reputation for not tripping, but that the HO should do some homework and research the panel on the web. In the 25 years of doing electrical work, I just saw last year a fire job that was caused by the service panel. And guess what the panel was!? That was the first and last time I have seen that, yet I remember when I was working were I shorted out a phase wire and the breaker didn't trip.

Harold

Top
#56669 - 09/29/05 05:57 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
When I see an FPE panel...I know the work is somewhat dated.

My main concern is not the panel, as much as what other changes have been made to the electrical system over the years. I start looking for those other things....flying splices, overloaded circuits, etc.

When FPE panels were all the rage, ten spaces were considered more than enough for a large home. Today, that might even not be enough for the kitchen! We just have so many more appliances!

Top
#56670 - 09/29/05 06:13 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
#56671 - 09/30/05 02:02 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
Jps1006 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 609
Loc: Northern IL
Great info guys. Thanks. Joe, Great link. Just printed it off and will be in the customer's hands within the hour.

Top
#56672 - 10/01/05 08:53 PM Re: FPE breakers and home inspection
ShockMe77 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Rahway, New Jersey
I wish I could find the the PDF file I was reading a month or two ago. It had a lot of facts concerning FPE breakers and the problems that company had over the years since it went out of business. I read that alot of their material wasn't realy UL listed but was in fact "forged" to have been. Space for the wire bends inside the panel was a real issue as was circuit breakers not tripping out at the specific rating on the breaker itself.

Now on to these home inspector guys...

A guy I work with just bought a house and was having a home inspection done. The wiseass I work with asked what the "big 30 amp" circuit breaker was for. Wanna know what the home inspector told him? Kitchen lighting. No joke. Then he told him he was an electrician and that the D.P ckt bkr was for a garage sub-panel.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals