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#56303 - 09/18/05 06:37 PM Drop ceiling
Sparks30 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Connecticut.usa
Went to a job today to finish up. They had other electricians doing other work. They were installing recessed cans in a drop ceiling. They used IC cans but they were wiring the switch legs to the bottom of the joist and not supporting the wire next to the cans. Now I thought that even though the wire is above the ceiling doesn't it still need to driller through the joist and supported properly.
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#56304 - 09/18/05 06:44 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Electric Eagle Offline
Member
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 914
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Above a drop ceiling there is no need to drill through the joists. Simply stapling the wire to the bottom is sufficient support and the connector on the can means it is secured. As long as the wires aren't touching the grid or just laying in the ceiling area it was most likely a code compliant installation.
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#56305 - 09/18/05 07:26 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Sparks30 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Connecticut.usa
How can this be legal? I thought we could not staple to joist like that. Have to be a min of 1 1/4 ". Also how can you consider the j-box on the fixture a means of support. Just questions I my be wrong in my thinking.
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#56306 - 09/18/05 07:43 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Tiger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 706
Loc: Crystal Lake, IL USA
You're not giving much information Sparks30. What type of wiring is used, and what is the distance between the grid and the joists.

Dave
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#56307 - 09/18/05 07:44 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Sparks30 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Connecticut.usa
It is romex and about 8" from the grid
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#56308 - 09/18/05 07:45 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Electric Eagle Offline
Member
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 914
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
When it's above the ceiling it is an inaccessable area. If the floor joists where the finished ceiling you would be correct, but in this case the wires are in no danger of being damaged. As for support, I may have missunderstood your original post, I thought you were talking about the wire support, not the can. Most cans are designed (and UL approved) to be supported by the grid. Our inspectors want to see a properly supported grid and our can arms screwed to the grid for support. The ceiling tile cannot support the can.
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#56309 - 09/18/05 07:55 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Tiger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 706
Loc: Crystal Lake, IL USA
According to Article 334.30, NM is secured within 12" of the box. The joist is close enough to provide this support.

Dave
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#56310 - 09/18/05 07:59 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Sparks30 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Connecticut.usa
The support is about 2' from the fixtures. I must just be the way I work, Iwould have drilled the joist just in case they ever wanted to rock it. They would not have to pay. All the wires that I ran though the space were drilled through the studs. Thanks for the input.

[This message has been edited by Sparks30 (edited 09-18-2005).]
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#56311 - 09/18/05 08:02 PM Re: Drop ceiling
jw electric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 106
Loc: Asheboro, NC
One thing that jumps out at me is where is this location? Multi contractors doesn’t seem like a house to me.
If under the 2005 cycle of the NEC look at this

Quote:
334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and NMS cables shall not be permitted as follows:
(1) In any dwelling or structure not specifically permitted in 334.10(1), (2), and (3)
(2) Exposed in dropped or suspended ceilings in other than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings
_________________________
Mike
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#56312 - 09/18/05 08:09 PM Re: Drop ceiling
Larry Fine Offline
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 693
Loc: Richmond, VA
From the '02 NEC:

334.30 Securing and Supporting.
(B) Unsupported Cables. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable:
(2) Is not more than 1.4 m (41⁄2 ft) from the last point of support for connections within an accessible ceiling to luminaire(s) [lighting fixture(s)] or equipment
_________________________
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com
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