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#55347 - 08/27/05 06:30 AM Short blackout - So. California
pauluk Offline

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

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Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#55348 - 08/27/05 07:15 AM Re: Short blackout - So. California
Trumpy Offline


Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8532
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Interesting that a guy from the UK should post this.
Seriously though, you have to say that having temperatures like that, affects the oil in the transformers as it does the lines that convey the energy, less dissipation= quicker shutdown.
But one thing that a lot of people don't realise is the fact that you have to sectionalise the loads as you bring them back on-line, bringing all that back on at once would cause an ever bigger crash than what caused the original fault.
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#55349 - 08/27/05 10:23 AM Re: Short blackout - So. California
sierra electrician Offline

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 220
Loc: North Fork, CA USA
SCE actually shut down three cities in the So. San Jauquin Valley to help unload the system for LA.

Spokesman for SCE said he got a call to shut them down and had no idea why his Company woud do that. A very well informed individual.


#55350 - 08/27/05 12:13 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
trollog Offline

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 273
Loc: San Diego California USA
Yes, that very same outage cut my workday short.. working in Carlsbad, Ca.. Oh well made for a nice quiet afternoon. As an aside, this is just a sign of things to come for all of us in San Diego county... what with all the developement going on in the hot inland interior- most of it high-end luxury homes with 2,3, and even 4 A/C units (for a freakin' residential house!?!?!- have we gone insane around here??) we are going to see more and more of this in the coming years I fear. While many of the lighting schemes I have seen and helped install in some of these "Mc-Mansions" are quite beautiful, elaborate and- I can't complain about this part, profitable- when you consider that similar watthour usage is going on up and down the streets of these gated communities 200-300 times over, depending on the size of the community, the sheer wastefulness of it seems downright obscene. All that usage so that the nintendo-generation can veg-out on the couch eating chips in front of the plasma screen in air-conditioned comfort.....

#55351 - 08/27/05 12:33 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9026
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Part of the problem is the old myth that it costs more to cool down a house in the evening when you get home than it is to run the A/C at your favorite temperature all day. When you are talking about these McMansions with five or six totally unused rooms that are cooled 24/7 it adds up fast.
I expect to see some sort of electricity rationing within a decade.
A household that uses more than a megawatt/hr a month per person is starting to get unreasonable and that is not an unusual usage.
Greg Fretwell

#55352 - 08/27/05 03:35 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
Lostazhell Offline

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 1248
Loc: Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Hmmm, Thats interesting.. I haven't noticed any disruptions over here in the PG&E area of the San Joaquin Valley (Bakersfield/Rosedale), but it has been seriously hot here this summer with daytime temps peaking around 105°F-111°F for the majority. I saw Huntington Beach listed as a blackout city, which coincidentally wasn't affected by the blackouts in '01 when I lived there...

New houses are going up at a blistering pace out here, and I know all the utilities are having a fair amount or stress to keep up with the area growth.. (SBC just had to do a HUGE equiptment upgrade in my area because of lack of capacity/new construction) PG&E seems to be pulling new line all over as well...


#55353 - 08/28/05 10:17 AM Re: Short blackout - So. California
sierra electrician Offline

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 220
Loc: North Fork, CA USA
It was Visaila,Tulare & Porterville areas. All Edison territory.

#55354 - 08/28/05 03:46 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
Larry Fine Offline

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Richmond, VA
Troll, sometimes it's more economical to heat and cool sections of a house separately, in zones, similarly to the way we use sub-panels in a large installation, than one large zone.

A single, large HVAC system could be designed to condition a large house, but the cost could exceed several, smaller systems. Plus upstairs may require more cooling; downstairs more heating.

And there/s the matter of distribution. There can be more energy lost in extensive ductwork due both to thermal and friction losses, than lost in the cost of multiple zones.
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.

#55355 - 08/28/05 04:08 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Get ready for this to become worse before it gets better...a lot worse.

Eco nuts have done everything- and with some success- to prevent the utilisation of existing, developed resources, block the exploitation of new ones, prevent the building of refineries, pipelines, and power plants. The only places with new nuclear plants are North Korea and Iran.
Even the construction of new power lines is opposed- can't have those ugly things here! Bury them? Heck, no- might upset the environment.

Any rate increase is opposed vehemently- no matter that new lines, and maintenance costs money.

Meanwhile, a schizo court has ruled that Enron contracts must continue to be paid off- even though Enron's contracting practices set a new standard of corruption. THAT is surely the way to punish Ken!

At this rate, it won't be long, and the "Twilight Zone" will look like a documentary.

#55356 - 08/28/05 05:31 PM Re: Short blackout - So. California
CTwireman Offline

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
It looks like the West is finally close to the day of reckoning with the laws of supply and demand.

People moving into the deserts of California, Nevada, etc on a mass scale can only spell disaster for the electrical supply infrastructure.

It's funny, everyone talks about the nice weather in Califonia but many people forget about the hot interior that requires constant air conditioning in the summer. And then there's Las Vegas and Phoenix and even Texas. I don't even want to think about what's coming.


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