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#55184 - 08/19/05 05:02 PM Plan review
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
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Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I'd like to pose an ethical question:

Suppose you are reviewing plans, preparing your bid- and you find something wrong.
Do you:
A) Ask the customer about it now;
B) Bid as drawn, counting on a change order later; or,
C) Keep your mouth shut, and do as specified?
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#55185 - 08/19/05 05:49 PM Re: Plan review
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
(A)

It makes you look like you know what you are doing, when you can spot things early on.

Then they tell you to go ahead and do (B), anyway, because they don't know your answer to (A).

Then halfway through the job, you wish you could of just done (C).


Dnk......
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#55186 - 08/19/05 06:47 PM Re: Plan review
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
With my EC hat on....we primarily do "design-build" for steady accounts. When we do 'plan' jobs (usually tenant fit-up) we bring errors and omissions 'out' ASAP to the owner/agent, or to the Arch/EE.

As an AHJ, "Plan Review" is basically for NEC compliance, and to cross check the permit items to the plans. 'Errors and omissions'???? you bet!!

John
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#55187 - 08/19/05 07:42 PM Re: Plan review
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
John,

Intresting, i wonder how many EC's that do plan jobs have E&O coverage, i bet not that many, we carry E&O and our insurance rates show it, when they put in those low bids, you can be sure they are not covered.
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#55188 - 08/20/05 05:32 AM Re: Plan review
Roger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1716
Loc: N.C.
During the bid process if there is time, we will ask questions if something jumps out, then the Architect/Engineer can send out an addendum or clarification to all bidders.

On large jobs the Architect/Engineer and Owner should (and most times do) require bidders to attend a pre bid conference for this very reason. When a group of potential contractors bring their questions to the table, many errors and omissions come up in most plans and specs, and this will generate the corrections before the bid opening.

There will always be some problems that will result in Change Orders regardless of these efforts though.

Roger
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#55189 - 08/20/05 02:41 PM Re: Plan review
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
This part of the bidding process is where a lot of game playng takes place.

It seems that there are many contractors who deliberately bid under their costs, relying on change orders to create a substantial profit later on. I suspect these guys don't inform the customer of the necessary changes before the job is awarded.


Another tack is to visit the job you lost, and look for ways to demonstrate that the guy who did get the job is in some way not meeting specs- then pointing that out to the customer, hoping to financially punish the other guy.
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#55190 - 08/20/05 04:09 PM Re: Plan review
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
When I was with big blue, making and accepting bids we got hammered both ways. If the subs that bid to us missed something we ate it and if we missed something in the bid to the end customer we ate it. That is probably why IBM never really made any money with "services".
I have to say I did really try to make the scope of work match the customer expectations and I would speak up as soon as I saw a problem. It saved money in the long run.


[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 08-20-2005).]
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#55191 - 08/21/05 12:53 AM Re: Plan review
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Darned good call John.
I'd not only go back to the customer, but I would contact the person that drew the plans too.
Keeping your mouth shut only ends in arguments further down the track and doesn't help anyone.
With respect to showing up on a job you never got, that would be way out of line here.
To start running the guy down that did get the job would not only be un-professional, but it would also be wasting your billable time.
You would be losing on both fronts.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-21-2005).]
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#55192 - 08/21/05 04:25 AM Re: Plan review
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
As for going back to the jobs you lost, Why not. I do it.

But not for the reasons stated here, I don't go back and try to bash the guy that won the job, I go back to see how he/she did it, what I might of missed, and what corners might of been cut. All without saying a word.

This gives me an idea of how someone else accomplishes the same task, what materials were used, and maybe some pointers on what to look out for the next time.

Everyone can nick-pick someone elses work, and that is very unprofessional, Heck if you look hard enough, I'm sure everyones work could be a little better, even mine.


Dnk......
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#55193 - 08/21/05 04:26 AM Re: Plan review
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
LK, what is E&O insurance, and what does it cover, and why do you need it?

Never heard of it before.

Can you elaborate?


Dnk........
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