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#53996 - 07/13/05 06:42 PM Leaving the rough live.
e57 Offline
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Show up at a job resi romex remodel to help out / clean-up afer one of our leads thats been on with us for a while. (Resi for 'bout a year or so) I have been on some slam dancing commercial jobs for most of the time he's been with us. Busy year! So I haven't seen him operate really, unless it was AT one of my much larger jobs, where I run the show.

So anyway, I show up, start walking the job doing a little QC... Cans aren't straight, need an outlet there, then I notice, everything is live. All of it, everything, whips out of the wall at eye level, switch legs, every outlet, everything.

So I ask him, "how come everything is on?"
"Oh, I do that so if the rockers, or carpenters mess something up, they'll know right away - I do it all the time."
So I'm nice about it, "So what makes you think that its OK - before I rattle off a list of safety hazards?"
His answer, "(Our PM, name ommited) says to do it."
Really?> Yeah, really. So I call, 'whats with this...' The answer is the same: "so if the rockers, or carpenters mess something up, they'll know right away..."
So then I am asked, "So you don't do it?" -"NO! Workplace safety, liability, where should I begin?" So next thing I know, I am debating this with the BOSS.

Anyway, sorry for the long narative, but have I lost my mind? Anyone else think this is an acceptable practice? Am I the only one who doesn't do it?

Now don't get me wrong, a few temp GFI outlets, or a few temp lights in a dark area - fine. But the whole job?
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
#53997 - 07/13/05 07:12 PM Re: Leaving the rough live.
Joey D Offline
Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 263
Loc: Arlington MA U.S.
I was in a habit of this when I was first in the trade. I though the same thing, the rockers were so careless with the roto zips the were cutting the wires at the M/C clamps in the box. After having it out with them I turned everything on to let them know what was going to happen.
I know it's a stupid idea , now anyways, and back charge hurts more than anything to these guys anyways
#53998 - 07/13/05 07:32 PM Re: Leaving the rough live.
hbiss Offline
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 893
Loc: Hawthorne, NY USA
Gotta be the stupidest thing I ever heard. Who would expect any of that to be hot? Lucky nobody was killed.

#53999 - 07/13/05 07:59 PM Re: Leaving the rough live.
Tiger Offline
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 714
Loc: Crystal Lake, IL USA
+1 with Hal's comments. It's a reckless disregard for job safety and the lives of the workers. It would have never occured to me to do something that careless.

#54000 - 07/14/05 03:53 AM Re: Leaving the rough live.
IanR Offline
Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 326
Loc: Palm Bay FL USA
Oh yeah, it's pefecly acceptable. If you want to get your @$$ sued off when some one gets KILLED! NOT acceptable

[This message has been edited by IanR (edited 07-14-2005).]
#54001 - 07/14/05 03:56 AM Re: Leaving the rough live.
IanR Offline
Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 326
Loc: Palm Bay FL USA
Oh yeah, tell him and you're PM that they can also be charged with manslaughter when(not if, WHEN) that happens!
#54002 - 07/14/05 06:05 AM Re: Leaving the rough live.
DougW Offline
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
Wires hanging out of boxes left live?

Not on my job site... especially not if I'm the "authorized employee" responsible for it.
#54003 - 07/14/05 08:18 AM Re: Leaving the rough live.
Big Ed Offline
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 56
Loc: Roxboro, NC, USA
Actually I think that the prosecutor could push for homocide. The power was WILLFULLY left on in an attempt to shock the other crafts. They were TRYING to. Intent implys murder, not manslaughter.

Stupid, stupid practice. I understand the aggrivation at the rockers & painters, but dude, killing them isn't the answer.

If you kill him, he won't learn nothin'!
#54004 - 07/14/05 04:26 PM Re: Leaving the rough live.
Ray97502 Offline
Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Central Point,OR
No way...It's hard to beleive that any electrician would follow that instruction...

But you could give the PM and the BOSS a RotoZip and let them rock a live house ( let the boss rock and the PM follow with the Zip) ...Just kidding.

Don't do it they might be obstenate (that's polite way of saying stupid which has already been proven) enought to try.
#54005 - 07/14/05 05:22 PM Re: Leaving the rough live.
growler Offline
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Marietta, Ga. 30060
I'm of a different opinion. I think it just great if his boss and PM kill a few rockers. I can't afford the liability myself, but have always wanted to. I've wanted to drag them out and strangle them with their own guts. Just a few years ago sheet-rockers could cut a hole that fit around a box better with a key hole saw than the people today can with a roto zip. Now we need to buy box inserts to keep them from destroying the wire. We should be able to back charge for every wire damaged and not a taping charge, I'm talking re-pull. Do we get to destroy the work of others just to get our jobs done faster. All the cost of a shoddy rock job get passed along to the electrician. There should never be a time when a jumbo plate is needed. The code says 1/8" around the box, when was the last time you saw that inforced. GOOD HUNTING.
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