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#5399 - 11/18/01 09:40 AM Ceilng Medalion
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
OK, I thought these things were for covering badly cut holes when installing a ceiling fan, but they're apparently becoming vogue...

Being the first time I've installed one, I've run into problems...

1) The center "flat" part of the medallion is 5", all canopies I've encountered are 6" diameter and won't fit. The medallion has "fancy raised engravings" that are in the way of a 6" canopy...

2) Being made of Styrofoam, I'd consider these things as "combustible" yet the things leave an area of about 3/4" exposed... (Box extenders are like hens teeth around here, and problem 3 eliminates their use)...

3) The hole in the center is slightly smaller than an octagonal box, making getting the screws in next to impossible even if I'm willing to break every code in the NEC (which I'm ever increasingly willing to do as I become more and more broke...)

And what about Kichler brand fixtures? How does one install a pendant type light (chandelier) when the canopy won't slide out of the way due to the hole being only large enough to fit on the all-thread, and not slip over the chain???

I am completely ready to change careers...again..

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#5400 - 11/18/01 09:56 AM Re: Ceilng Medalion
motor-T Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 280
Loc: Girard, Ohio, USA
'66
I have used them before and never had a problem with them, now the one I uesed was about 11 inches in diameter and went together slicker than a greased pig.
Maybe you got a defective one ? Although I wasnt sure what they were made of, but as far as I know they are listed.
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#5401 - 11/18/01 10:34 AM Re: Ceilng Medalion
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3875
Loc: NY, USA
Virgil,

I'm with you. I'm hoping these things will go away. I don't really care for the way they look either. They seem a little out of place in anything less than a very large room.

Maybe you could make yourself a bigger flat area for the canopy with a razor blade. Some of these things come in 2 halves I think. Those might be easier in some situations.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-18-2001).]
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#5402 - 11/18/01 08:45 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
Gosh... Didn't mean to sound so down...

As far as being able to cut around it, I've cut enough out to get the screws on, but still can't find a solution to the canopy fitting properly... It has deep carvings as ornaments all around and only a 5" circle on the center that is flat...

I've asked the owner to either find a 5" canopy (are they legal?) or we'll have to replace the medallion with a different style...

I don't feel comfortable in any way in taking a knife to any visible part of this thing... I'm no wood carver by any means...

One slip and it'd be time to buy a new medallion for the home-owner... One of those "impossible to please" types...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-19-2001).]
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#5403 - 11/18/01 09:28 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
'66

Week before last I had to convert three recessed cans into surface mount chandeliers. The house is an 1879 Queen Ann lake "cottage" complete with turret, so the medallions used to cover the old six inch openings harken back to the plaster ceiling detail that may very well have been over the original gas lights. The owner had selected twelve pound brass chain hung units that also carried the gas light motif.

I took the recessed trim and the lamp housing out, complete, but left the j-box and pan in place. I removed the cable from the recessed j-box and reconnected it to a deep Reiker fan brace box. I nipped away enough of the positioning feet to allow the j-box to drop down flush with the finished surface of the medallion, screwed the brace into the joists and finished it off.

I also keep two or three copies of every depth plaster ring that I can lay my hands on. In a pinch, I'll drill and tap a ground screw in the throat of it to bond it if I'm extending off a plastic box.

If my customer gives me a medallion that doesn't fit the canopy of the fixture they supply, I bill'em for the time it takes to coax a fit out of the hardware that'll suit them, or else have them get the right parts.

As for the Kichler unit, whoever thought up that assembly, never installed one.
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#5404 - 11/19/01 03:30 AM Re: Ceilng Medalion
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
A few local suppliers around here have canned Kichler....
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#5405 - 11/19/01 01:35 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
Tom Offline
Member
Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1044
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
This is just another reason why I try to avoid residential work. I just don't seem to have near as many problems doing commercial/industrial. It always seems some dinky little cheap or cheaoly made item on a residential job that screws things up.

As far as the Medallion, your customer wanted it, you're no miracle worker, they'll have to live with a less than perfect looking installation. I know that this will bug you to no end, but sometimes you just have to accept the fact that you're human. Unless, of course, you're there on a time & material basis.

BTW, I absolutely detest ceiling fans, when asked how much to install one (for a non-steady customer) the first thing I write down is $100 (aggravation factor), then I finish the estmate in the usual fashion.

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 11-19-2001).]
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#5406 - 11/19/01 01:53 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
If we're on the same wavelength here, these things are what most people here call a ceiling rose, only most of the ones I see here are plaster (and heavy).
I don't like 'em either, because the extra 1.5 to 2" depth causes no end of problems for fitting the heavy chandelier-type lights that people often want to use with them. Some months ago I took down a light fitting, got half way down the ladder only to be hit across the shoulders by one of these things that obviously hadn't been secured properly.

And yes, they might look good in one of England's old stately homes, but in the average house I find them much too fancy and ornate.
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#5407 - 11/19/01 09:18 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
Here goes:

Bought a 5" canopy (brass) sanded the finish off and spray painted it white. Looks decent, and happy customer, only took about an extra 15 minutes...

Guess I was making a bigger deal out of it than it was...

Tom,

Yep, I tend to agree, I estimated the trim out at 24 hours, it has taken 53 and counting... Holy Schmoly!!!

I've had 5 out of about 30 go in as planned (read smoothly)... The rest had all kinds of neat little things hold me up and made me look like I didn't know what I was doing...

Can't wait 'til I've got the extra C-note to go take the Inspector's test...

(Will someone please wake me from this nightmare?!?!?)

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-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
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#5408 - 11/20/01 01:40 PM Re: Ceilng Medalion
Tom Offline
Member
Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1044
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Virgil,

If scrap copper was worth a $ a pound, I'd give you my little stash so you could go take your test.

I don't usually have problems with the equipment or materials I supply. However, some of the junk, including brand new junk, that the homeowner or general contractor wants hooked up will definitely cost time & $$$.

Tom
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