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#53421 - 06/23/05 11:28 PM How? Is this possible?
Trumpy Offline

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8560
Loc: SI,New Zealand
I need your advice here.
I've just got off of the telephone from an Apprentice that I used to train with the company that I used to work for as a Supervisor of Apprentices.
The young fella was sacked after it was found that he had a problem with partying and so forth.
Now up until the time that he was "let go" he had a perfect record with us, although he was late a couple of times.
His work was top-notch and I even gave him a reference to show that he was a good employee.
Now, he did 8500 hours with us (in an 8000 hour regime) with regard to practical hours, the Licencing Board here in New Zealand need a reference from his Boss, which wasn't me.
It is my ex-Boss, who I'm not on the best terms with anyway.
This has lapsed 1 1/2 years, but the guy is sure that he want's Registration as an Electrician.
I'm willing to help him, (outside of my working hours) as I know that the guy has cleaned his life up since.
He knows he dropped the ball and he would just like to get registered.
Question is, how do you approach a Boss that has already sacked you?.
Especially a highly-strung guy like I'm talking about.
IMO, he doesn't have to do a d**n thing, but how do you coax him around to help this guy.
We are short enough of Electricians here, 1 more good one would be a bonus, considering he's done the hours.
What's your opinion?.

{Please let's keep this one on-topic}
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
#53422 - 06/24/05 04:47 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
Jps1006 Offline
Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 609
Loc: Northern IL
So let me see if I got this. Your licensing board requires a personal reference from a boss that trained you, but then then relies on his 'good will' to do it for the guy? I would think that things should be on a little more of an official level where there be obligations by both parties involved. What would keep all the bosses from withholding references unless they were bribed, or only refering family?

I don't know the culture of the board but I would consider explaining to them the situtaion and see what they say. The other option would be a little old fashion smooozing. Find something this highly strung guy likes and present it as a gesture peace and forgiveness when he aproaches him with his request. Best would be something both he and the old boss have it common that says "see, we are both the same knid of people". sporting event tickets, round of golf, new golf club(s), gun or hunting related items etc. Maybe not a good idea to offer a bottle of wine or liquor.
#53423 - 06/24/05 07:04 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
If the former boss is truly a "doulbe ess oh bee" (spelt backswards), then I suggest these alternatives:
First is to have the company personnel office write the letter, attesting to the fact the hours were documented. Lacking such an office, go up the ladder to the boss's boss.
The second is to write the letter yourself, as "training director" (or whatever your title was), attesting to his time and training.
After all, it is common for a man to have many supervisors over four years.
Either letter ought to satisify the board. They are concerned with the man's training and experience, not with who is exactly where in the chain of command.
#53424 - 06/24/05 05:30 PM Re: How? Is this possible?
e57 Offline
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
You might want to search out the "letter of the law", so to speak, there might still be something you, or he can do.

I had a simular issue with a guy that used to work under me for four years. He left, and went back to school to be an EE. Ran out of school money and had to get a job with flexible hours. And our old boss wouldn't sign for him to get his license, (Just because he didn't like the guy. Same guy wouldn't sign mine either, I had to go back to all of my old bosses. "So, you want to take all of my customers huh?", he said. Funny, I work for the guy again, maybe I should have stole his customers.) so I signed his... Still had to take the test like everyone else. And thats for CA contracting license. Just for Journeymans Card... Thats takin' food out of the guys mouth, thats not cool.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#53425 - 06/24/05 09:39 PM Re: How? Is this possible?
giddonah Offline
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 50
Loc: UT
the whole system makes me ill.
#53426 - 06/24/05 11:26 PM Re: How? Is this possible?
Alan Belson Offline
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Since you were instrumental in supervision of his training, as 'mentor', you were effectively his 'boss' as regards the information the Board require, so I think it is perfectly acceptable for you to give this man the reference he requires. With the proviso that you are confident in the truth of the situation: your reputation is on the line too if he turns out to be a dud. The licencing provisions are there to protect the common-wealth, after all, from unsuitable persons.
Wood work but can't!
#53427 - 06/25/05 01:11 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
Trumpy Offline

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8560
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Thanks a whole heap for your comments guys.
Sure this must be the toughest nut I've had to crack in a long while.
Usually I can work these sorts of things out for myself, it's just the broken employment thing that I can't seem to get over.
For a start, there is no way at all that I would sink to a level of bribery.
We all have a part to play in this industry and when it comes down to that sort of thing, I'd sooner leave and find a job outside of a place like that.
I've asked the Apprentice to submit his last payslip, as Apprentices have the amount of hours printed on the payslip.
That has to help I guess.
Yeah, I can agree with that, It seems to me that this guy (sure he has made a mistake, h**l who hasn't over the years?) is at the mercy of a guy that never liked him from the start.
There is a difference here, between "Supervisor of Electrical Work" and "Employer", the first meaning that I make sure that the guy doesn't electrocute anyone, that means the customer, me or the general public.
Secondly, the Employer pays his wages, he has the greatest say in this matter and he could easily over-ride me in any submission to the EWRB (Electrical Workers Registration Board), if he was that way inclined.
Sad yes, I know, but you don't know how cold the water is until you try it, do you?.
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
#53428 - 06/25/05 08:37 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
Jps1006 Offline
Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 609
Loc: Northern IL
Wow, when you call it a bribe, it sure sounds a lot worse. I was thinking along the lines of a friendly geasture, like when I want to make up with my wife, might get her a little something. Or more to the type of relationship at hand here, if I do something stupid on the job that may have put maybe the plumber or risk or got in his way or threw off his schedule, then to make it up to him, maybe pick up lunch, or drill a few holes for him, or tell him to keep the drill bit he borrowed.

But if things have always been on bad terms between the two it probably could omly be considered a bribe. Which goes back to my point about how can this system be set up this way? What if I only gave references to people who would give me bribes? Good luck Mike.
#53429 - 06/25/05 09:20 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
William Runkle Offline
Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 27
Loc: Dowagiac, Michigan U.S.A.
This probably doesn't help your situation but our state board requires a registration for apprenticeship that has to be paid yearly about 5 dollars and signed by the Master of the apprentice so it is known by the board that the apprentice has been registerede four 4 years which equals out to 8000 hrs. But also I have to supply a letter of reference that states what the apprentice can do and how long in hours that he or she has workrd. But I suggest Trumpy call this boss up and talk with him explain the situation to him then have the apprentice call also. As an apprentice myself I partied hard always having my rule never drink on job or at lunch and come back to work would come to work with a hangover but never drunk, so this apprentice could be me. How many years had he worked for 8500 hrs. if less than four and a half years shows he wants his license so bring it up to your old boss. Also I haven't had a drink in 23 years and that has helped me out tremendously.
William Runkle
#53430 - 06/28/05 12:06 AM Re: How? Is this possible?
Trumpy Offline

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8560
Loc: SI,New Zealand
I might go and have a word with the guy tomorrow, seems I'm on Night Shift these days.
Something needs to happen.
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
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