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#5264 - 11/12/01 03:13 PM tap 12-14awg  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
Where would you find the code section that allows tapping 14awg pigtails to receptacles from a 12awg small appliance circuit scotchlock connector? I thought it was 210-19(d), but exception 1(c) seems to say I can't tap to a receptacle. opps [Linked Image]


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#5265 - 11/12/01 04:07 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
amp-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 141
Sacto, California US of A
Cindy,

You're not finding it 'cuz it ain't there!

Taps aren't allowed in this situation.

Also--is it common practice in your area to use scotchlock connectors for receptacles? Are you talking about those insulation-displacement connectors (IDCs)? Whay are you ising them?

I'd only ever use those for fluorescent fixtures. When I've got a short wire in the back of a box, I use WAGO wall-nuts. The WAGOs are easier and in my opinion give a better connection (both mechanical and electrical).

Cliff


#5266 - 11/12/01 04:32 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
motor-T  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 280
Girard, Ohio, USA
Cindy;
No you can not use the tap rule in this situation. To minimize voltage drop, sometimes no.12 conductors are used for long 'homeruns' even tho the bc is rated only 15 amps.
210-3, which states where conductors of higher ampacity are used for any reason, the ampere rating or setting of the specified overcurrent device shall determine the circuit rating.
Pig-tails on receptacles less than that of the branch circuit must be capable of carring 20 amps because they are an extension of the branch circuit. See 210-24 is a summary of branch-circuit requirements.

Amp-man;
What are WAGO s ? and who makes them ?


#5267 - 11/12/01 06:52 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
amp-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 141
Sacto, California US of A
motor-T,

Go to "www.wago.com". The site has a button that takes you to a PDF brochure for the "wal-nut" connectors.

I saw 'em at ElectricWest last year in Anaheim and got a few. I was doubtful about the quality of the connection, but it's really pretty good. It's not cheesey like a back-stab device; on the wal-nut, there's a lot of wire-to-connector contact. And the thing really grabs the wire.

Now, I wouldn't use the WAGO for splicing in a a receptacle circuit except in a real pinch. But sometimes for old work where the conductor is cut off inside the box, they're a lifesaver.

If I'm doing commercial lighting circuits and my margin is real slim, I sometimes use 'em. No problems so far.

Ideal Industries makes a very similar product, but it's not designed for stranded conductors. The Idea product is easier to find, though. I just call them WAGOs, regardless of the source.

Cliff


#5268 - 11/12/01 08:08 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
He said I could do it, but didn't have a code reference. I think he's done this for about 30 years. Actually, I think it makes sense, like being able to use the 18awg luminaire taps from 14awg b/c's.
Scotchlocks? That's what I grew up calling them[my dad called them that], but I meant wirenut, wingnut, twister, wiretwists, you know the tan, red, yellow, blue, and orange screw on connectors.
Thanks, i should say i'm really very new to this so probably use the wrong words a lot [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Cindy (edited 11-12-2001).]


#5269 - 11/12/01 09:10 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Cindy,
This is not acceptable, but evidently, it is commonly done. The difference being that luminaires are a known, fixed load.n Receptacles aren't. This was discussed extensively in a previous topic. I looked, but couldn't find it.

Any help, Bill?

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 11-12-2001).]


#5270 - 11/12/01 09:14 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
amp-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 141
Sacto, California US of A
O.K., now I get it.

Like kleins for sidecuts, channels for arc-joint pliers, etc.

On the branch circuit tap approach appearing reasonable, it seems that a lot of Code requirements provide a wide margin of safety. On the other hand, what do you gain by using a 14 tap off of a 12 BC conductor? Mainly a little easier time of it tucking the device back into the box. If the box is so crowded that this is a real problem, maybe it's time to replace the box.

Cliff


#5271 - 11/12/01 09:29 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
your right cliff, its just a little easier, he was trying to ehlp me out by suggesting an easier way to make the receptacle connections. i think you and sparky and fred and dspark probably got frustrated trying to explain some basics to me last summer. electricity is interesting, but its very difficult for me to get a handle on all the rules and theories


#5272 - 11/12/01 09:30 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
motor-T  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 280
Girard, Ohio, USA
Cindy;
Why would you want to use a tap-conductor on a small appliance circuit?


#5273 - 11/12/01 11:13 PM Re: tap 12-14awg  
Dallas  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 151
North Salem, IN 46165
Around me, they tap 14's off 12's so they can back-stab the devices. Always sounded like a lot of work to get out of a little work, as well as being against NEC, but we've been down this road before. ( A BUNCH) [Linked Image]


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