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#52010 - 05/18/05 09:11 AM kitchen circuits
Bert66 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Belle Chasse, La. USA
Guy's I've looked all over 210.52 and have not found anything that says the dishwasher and disposal needs to be on their own circuit. I have 2 dedicated circuits in the kitchen (4 if you count the microwave and refrigerator) and due to real estate in the panel I grabbed power for the dishwasher and disposal from one of the kitchen circuits.
Well the inspector frowned upon it and wants it on it's own circuit. I would have normally had it that way. Have any of you been turned down for this? He is also wanting me to install the attic lights w/switch and GFI's now. This is only the rough in!!! I've had this guy on another inspection without this kind of grief. At best maybe he just got up on the wrong side of the bed.

Thanks for your replys, Bert

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#52011 - 05/18/05 09:45 AM Re: kitchen circuits
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Because they are both equipment fixed in place, neither of them would be permitted to consume more than 50% of the branch circuit rating (I am assuming 20 amps). Also, branch circuits must be sized to the load served, so you will have to add the rating of the two together and make sure it doesn't exceed the rating of the breaker.

210.19(A)(2)
210.20
210.23(A)(2)
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#52012 - 05/18/05 09:47 AM Re: kitchen circuits
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Where you said that you supplied these with the kitchen circuits...so you mean the two small appliance branch circuits? If so, that would violate 210.11(C)(1).
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#52013 - 05/18/05 10:54 AM Re: kitchen circuits
Bert66 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Belle Chasse, La. USA
Sorry Ryan, could you explain the violation of 210.11(C)(1). I'm still not clear as to how it violates this code. 210.11(C)(1) states Small-Appilance Branch Circuits in addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, two or more 20 amp small appliance branch circuits shall be provided for ALL receptacle outlets specified by 210.52(B)
If I'm reading 210.52(B)(3) correct it doesn't state this as being violated. It does mention that Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small-appliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen. Exhibit 210.52 in the NEC 2005 handbook shows one of the branch circuits feeding the disposal.

[This message has been edited by Bert66 (edited 05-18-2005).]

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#52014 - 05/18/05 02:04 PM Re: kitchen circuits
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
210.52 B 2 Says the two or more sa branch circuits specified in B 1 shall have no other outlets. Your appliances would be considered other outlets as they are not listed in what the sa circuits can feed. The picture in the handbook is not the code. I don't have it in front of me but I bet the example shows a clock receptcle not a garbage disposal. The DW and disp do not necesarily have to be on their own circuit depends on the load. Also they need not be 20 amp circuits. My editorial. Do you really think using a small appliance circuit to feed a dishwasher AND a disposal AND who knows what else will be plugged into the circuit is a good idea?

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#52015 - 05/18/05 02:23 PM Re: kitchen circuits
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Ditto Scott's response. The handbook picture (actually exhibit 210.25, not 210.52) shows a clock, not a wate disposal.

Read Scott's reply, he hit it right on the head.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#52016 - 05/18/05 02:25 PM Re: kitchen circuits
Bert66 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Belle Chasse, La. USA
scott I would not have normally done it this was. But due to the layout it made it easer to run the wires. I'm going to fix it the way the inspector wants it to be. I was just trying to understand the technical side of the code. In closing, Scott I believe your correct about the diagram in the handbook being a clock. It caught me off gaurd as it was located at the sink in both pictures.

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#52017 - 05/19/05 08:12 AM Re: kitchen circuits
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
I believe 252 B 1 allows adding required floor and wall recepts to the 2 required small appliance circuits.

As long as the dishwasher and disposal are plug and cord connected, their recepts are allowed to be on the 2 required small appliance recepts.

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#52018 - 05/19/05 12:08 PM Re: kitchen circuits
Bert66 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Belle Chasse, La. USA
George, that is how I viewed this. But being it's such a short run I will probably do it like the inspector wants. But I will question it for future referance.

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#52019 - 05/21/05 02:01 AM Re: kitchen circuits
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Cord and plug connected or not, countertop ciruits are to have no other outlets according to 210.52B(2)

 Quote:
No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical supply to and support of an electric clock in any of the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.

A dishwasher, and disposal don't fall into either exception. Depending on what the loads are, you may be able to divide these up on to other than the circuits feeding the countertops. But you would be better off making them dedicated.

"At best maybe he just got up on the wrong side of the bed." - Sounds like hes doing his job. (And, I don't stick up for Inspectors too often. Sorry Ryan.) But the way I see it, you're giving him something else to look for when you give him something like this. As for the switched lights in the attic, I'll assume there are stairs leading to it, and he's calling it "Accessable Storage" or "Habitable", and GFI's if there is any servicable equipment up there would make it "Equipment Space". This is covered in 210.70A(3)
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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