ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,627 Are you busy
166,458 Re: Forum
160,717 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 63 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#50959 - 04/17/05 10:57 AM Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
Sparkeee32  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 32
Federal Way WA USA
Howdy! Simple question, Can I use Scrap THWN for wire within my rough and tumble 4X4 truck? THe wire is free scrap from work, the wire guages I'll match or upgrade from stock manuals. I'm not concerned with legal tech really, just in the real world application, safety, and flat out, will it work [Linked Image] Thanks! Brian Sparkeee24 P.S. any other ideas would be apretiated as well !


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#50960 - 04/17/05 11:05 AM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
walrus  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
Bangor Me. USA
It will work but the insulation will crack after a while from my experience.


#50961 - 04/17/05 11:21 AM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
I used THWN to run power from the battery to an inverter in the bed of my PU. Has been installed for 4 years now, and still looks fine. YMMV. Secure it well, and use grommets wherever it passes through metal barriers.


#50962 - 04/17/05 03:31 PM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
Active 1  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
Make sure it's stranded.

I used it for some things under the hood and inside. I'm too cheap to buy battey cables. For a 6' #4 I think was $15 or more. I ran scrap #2 from 1 battery to a lug on the starter then back to the 2nd battery. It's a bit stiff. We used welding cable on trunk mount baterys befor. That works a bit better because it flexes more.

Depending on the car some came with some poor quality wire. I want to say that some conversion vans and RV's are done with THWN.

Does not hurt to upsize the wire. I use a lot of #12 just because thats what I have. The manufacture tends to size wires on the smaller side for cost & weight.

Tom


#50963 - 04/17/05 05:52 PM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Good subject,

I would not use it under the hood, the temp rise is much greater then it can stand, we seen this in action when we had a car fire in the parking lot at a bingo hall, when she came out to look at what was left of the car, she made a comment about my husband just rewired everything, yes he did, all with thhn wire, it cracked and shorted, i assume with the engine heat.


#50964 - 04/20/05 10:48 PM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
Active 1  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
Ok, I'll admit THWN is not the best choice for under hood automotive. I still say it will be ok.

Some automotive primary wire is only rated for 80 or 90 C at 50v.

Most wire is run thru wire looms or wrapped in tape from the factory for additional protection. It is good to protect the wire in this way and secure it. Things can rub thru with vibration. One key is to keep the wires away from the more hot pieces like the exhaust which can run in the 400 F range or more if somethings wrong.

Everything except the battery cables is fused or has fusable link wires (except for a few slip ups from the factories). An electrical fire most likely is from a shorted batery cable or an unfused wire shorted. Too many people just hook on a wire to the battery. Also don't delete the fusable link (a short piece of smaller gauge wire by a power distribution point).

Some vehicles do run hotter under the hood like if it has a turbo. But for a typical POS it will last until the next thing breaks.

Auto wire distribotor spec's:
http://www.jaguarind.com/products/pvc/wire/gptprimary.html
http://www.condumex.com/ing/cableautomotriz/cable_primario_pvc_xlp.html
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache [Linked Image]jhFr4ke5EQJ:www.awcwire.com/pdf/ct-c1-sxl-sgt-gxl-txl-gpt.pdf+automotive+wire+temperature&hl=en

Tom

[This message has been edited by Active 1 (edited 04-20-2005).]


#50965 - 04/21/05 02:00 AM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,059
Estero,Fl,usa
The big killer will be vibration. Even stranded THHN will not be as tolerant of movement as the regular fine stranded used by the manufacturer.


Greg Fretwell

#50966 - 04/21/05 09:11 AM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
highvoltageguy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 53
Silt, Colorado, USA
I used to work for a custom van customizing place in San Diego in the mid 70's and we used thhn/thwn inside the van, console wiring,lighting thru out van etc. all from a fuse block, as for inside the engine comp. did do much there. but I do have a old 65 ford truck and the old guy I got it from was JCWhitney crazy and he did lots of stuff, using thwn and it still ok and i've had the truck for 15 years now, and some of it is in the engine compartment.


#50967 - 04/22/05 07:22 PM Re: Scrap THWN for auto use on old 4X4?  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
gfretwell,

The stranding is the problem, when the insulation splits, the stranding pushes out of the jacket, they are discovering this, with aircraft wiring that was built under mil specs., the older cables were bundled, and some of them laced, however small cracks, or tears can rupture under vibration, and a little moisture, and there goes everything.



Member Spotlight
HappyElectrician
HappyElectrician
Penn USA
Posts: 31
Joined: December 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8004 MB (Peak: 0.9653 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-28 08:14:10 UTC