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#49971 - 03/21/05 05:29 PM Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
mj Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 188
Loc: meriidian, ms
If a set of plans as been reviewed and approved by the (AHJ), and most items on the plans exceeds the mimimun requirements of the NEC. for example the plans shows a 1200 amp service..but from your load calculations an 800 amp service will work,...the plan shows a #2/0 grounding electrode conductor(exothermic welded to ground rods,...but you decide to use a #6 and use mechanical connections .The inspector turns to job down because "the work was not done according to the approved plans" Question : is it the inspector duty to only enforce the NEC minimum requirments, and not beyoung that ?

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#49972 - 03/21/05 05:35 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
stamcon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/01
Posts: 322
Loc: So San Francisco CA
As far as I'm aware of, plans are legal documents that are filed with the county and define the construction of a building. The building needs to be built according to the plans. Amended plans would need to be filed so show differences in the construction. The AHJ should only be accepting what's on the plans.

steve

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#49973 - 03/21/05 05:46 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
I may be wrong, but IMO plan reviews are for code compliance and should not have any bearing beyond code compliance in the finished product.

At any given time during a project the owner may decide to consider some "Value Engineering" and if this altered the drawings to an extent without compromising "code compliance" why would the AHJ have the power to force this owner to buy a Cadillac when after second thought an Impala would suffice?

If this inspector is so concerned with "Contract Document compliance" he/she should go to work for the Architect or Engineer that is doing the design and writing the specs.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 03-21-2005).]

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#49974 - 03/21/05 05:59 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
mj Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 188
Loc: meriidian, ms
Thanks for your reply Stamcom, as an Inspector, when a set of plans are approved,the work should be done according to the plans,..any changes must be in writting from the Designer/Engineer. if any problems that may occur in a wiring system if we allow changes without consent from the designer, then the AHJ will be at fault.Most good designer exceed the minimum NEC requirements, however some electrical contractors will cut corners to make a profit by trying to wire to the mimimun code.

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#49975 - 03/21/05 06:24 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Mj, your concerns would be covered by the owners representatives, i.e. A/E.

The punch lists and close out documentation would guarantee design compliance, the contractors final payment and retainage would be held until all close outs were satisfied.

An AHJ is treading on thin ice as far as demanding item for item installation beyond code and holding up a C.O.

If there are added items, the AHJ has every right to ask for new drawings to review, if there are deletions, the AHJ would also have the right to ask for "record drawings" but not to turn down a job.

BTW, this is only MO.

Roger

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#49976 - 03/21/05 07:13 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Funny when most of our EE plans go to the city planning dept., we usually have a lot of red pen additions to cover. Mo'money!

But on the job, they ask for the approved set as refferance to scope, and as-builds for FLS. Not often will they get into enginnerring except to check AIC, or load calc's or something like that.

Outside of the Inspector and the City, it is simple contract compliance to perform the bid set. (UON)
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#49977 - 03/21/05 08:18 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think the argument you will get from most building departments is if that was what was submitted and plan reviewed that is what you build. Their inspectors have enough to do without trying to second guess why something is what it is on the plan.
It is certainly up to the inspector what he will ignore if it has his bosses signature and stamp on it but he may be proceeding at his own peril.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#49978 - 03/21/05 09:41 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
macmikeman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Anybody remember when the balcony fell at a hotel in I believe Kansas City quite a while back ? I do . The first thing they did was send in the forsenic engineers who raised hell because somebody did not follow the accepted plans.

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#49979 - 03/22/05 08:53 AM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
My general rules are:

1) show as little on the plans as is necessary.

2) the inspector checks that details on the plans are constructed as shown

3) the inspector shecks that details NOT on the plans are to code.

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#49980 - 03/22/05 09:36 AM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC
mj Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 188
Loc: meriidian, ms
When you bid on a job, I am sure that a set of plans were given to you. Any wiring methods,materials,service size,grounding details,etc.. should be done according to the plans, However for those that wish to make extra profits just do not follow the plans.For example, use NMC instead of a Metal Raceway, install (50) circuits instead of (100). so when an if the wiring system fails because the plans were not followed, who is to blame, the AHJ, The General,or the Electrical Contractor ?

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