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#49813 - 03/18/05 04:06 AM service entrance
sid123456 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 72
Loc: Florida
is there any issues with running the 4 wire service entrance cable diagonally along the joists from the meter to the panel 50 feet away. trying to save some money,

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#49814 - 03/18/05 08:09 AM Re: service entrance
tlaidman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
There is no reason electrically but it will look like a shoddy job and if it is being inspected the inspector will probably not pass it.

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#49815 - 03/18/05 08:21 AM Re: service entrance
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
We have to be sure what we are talking about.

 Quote:
4 wire service entrance cable


Does this cable contain unprotected service entrance conductors or is it simply a feeder?

Assuming this cable has overcurrent protection I see no problem with it.

IMO an inspector can not fail a job strictly because they do not like a cable running diagonally.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#49816 - 03/18/05 08:21 AM Re: service entrance
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
This is allowed by the NEC for certain size condcutors.

did you say DIAGONALLY...try to do it a a right angle...diagonal will look like CRAP!

Are you talking floor joist in a crawl space or are you up in the attic?

-regards

greg

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 03-18-2005).]
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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#49817 - 03/18/05 11:42 AM Re: service entrance
tlaidman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I have seen inspectors fail wiring that they considered not up to standards of a workmanlike installation.

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#49818 - 03/18/05 11:49 AM Re: service entrance
sid123456 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 72
Loc: Florida
ok guys, thanks for the instite. i'll change my routing

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#49819 - 03/18/05 03:00 PM Re: service entrance
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
 Quote:
There is no reason electrically but it will look like a shoddy job and if it is being inspected the inspector will probably not pass it.
 Quote:
I have seen inspectors fail wiring that they considered not up to standards of a workmanlike installation.

That's ridiculous.

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#49820 - 03/18/05 03:34 PM Re: service entrance
Rich Thomas Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Diagonally or rectangularly installed, the description implies the service disconnect is in the panelboard and the diagonal run of 50 feet is inside the building. It sounds like the service conductors are accessible inside an attic. This leads me to think the requirements of NEC 230.7(1) are not met since the service disconnect is not located at the point nearest the point of entrance.

Does the AHJ have an allowable length from the point-of-entrance to the location of the DS?

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#49821 - 03/18/05 03:55 PM Re: service entrance
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
As Iwire brought up, I think this is a feeder unless we're talking a three phase service.

In any case it should be square and plumb, not per code, but for putting your name to it.

Roger

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#49822 - 03/18/05 03:56 PM Re: service entrance
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,

You said: "4 wire service entrance cable"..

Is this a residence or what? If it is a residential application...you do not need a 4 wire cable...you need an SE cable which has two insulated conductors in it and a bare neutral..

a ser cable has four..two hots, neut, and grnd..this is for feeding sub panels..

The cable should run at right angles if possible. It is perfectly within the NEC to run any conductor larger than a #4 across the FACE of a joist or rafter or whatever. I cant think of the article so dont get mad becasue I didnt quote the nec verbatum...its in there! I think it is 300.??..

Running it diagonally in a concealed location doesnt mean SQUAT! If you want to run it diagonally go ahead. If it is in a unfinished basement I would at least try and run it at right angles.

There is also NO distance or location given for where the ocpd has to be located as long as it is within reason. 10 feet for certain types of cables and or condcutors...especially if they are not fire retardant...like USE or whatever..

There is also NO code requirement to NOT have service conductors NOT accessible in an attic or anywhere else for that matter..i dont think it is that safe because there is no fuse between you and the poco xfmr..

If I take a weatherhead and stub it out of the ATTIC I can run a SE cable down to the OCPD with or WITHOUT a conduit.

I can do the same thing if I run it DOWN the wall and INTO the attic or basement...Myself I wish this would get cleared up in the NEC becasue it always starts an argument!

Since I am good at that I figured I would go ahead and get it started!

I have seen inspectors REFUSE to allow the disconnect ANYWHERE except on one side of the wall or the other..I have seen them allow you to run it through the house, down into the basement on a two story house!

I am not shouting at anyone...just putting emphasis on the key words..so dont get upset everybody..I am cool as a cucumber!

This is an old debate and it has gone around and around for years..even on this rag..

Heres what i would do..try to use a csed when possible..you will be providing your client with a lot more bang for their buck rather than a meterbase on the outside of the house and it makes everything really simple..the combo meterbase and disco is a good one too...if located next to the AC unit you can save a buck or two by feeding it from that panel..i prefer the generator feature myself and I sell them all the time.

I love se and ser cable myself..

ok bring it on guys..i know you are salivating and cant wait to try and prove me wrong..DING DING!

-regards

greg


[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 03-18-2005).]
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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