The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
1 registered (aussie240), 158 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#49229 - 03/01/05 07:40 PM "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
bucketman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 71
Loc: vancouver WA, USA.
"AHJ says if grounding elctrode conductor is longer then 100' up size from #4 to a #2."
no code was refferanced.

Why?
what would he be thinking?
has any one seen this in nec 2002 or 2005?

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#49230 - 03/01/05 08:43 PM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
Bob Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 182
Loc: Mobile, AL, USA
This is not a code problem. Its an engineering problem. If the grounding conductor is too long the impedance may cause a delay in the opening of the breaker. The 100 ft is a rule of thumb. To know if there is a problem you would need to caculate the fault current and check the curves for the breaker. How long is the conductor?

Top
#49231 - 03/01/05 09:05 PM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
bucketman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 71
Loc: vancouver WA, USA.
Are rules of thumb enforceable violation?
NEC says nothing about rules of thumb, right?
article 250 said nothing about it.
is something wrong with 250.66? No

it's a residence with a 200amp service
4/0 alum
grounding electrode conductor from service to with in 5' of whare water enters the house.
a distance of 85'.

Top
#49232 - 03/01/05 09:08 PM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
bucketman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 71
Loc: vancouver WA, USA.
check the curves for the breaker?
how do i do that?
what is the curve of a breaker?
are they like a womans curves?

Top
#49233 - 03/01/05 10:39 PM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
bucketman ---

The AHJ is asking you to either increase the conductor size or provide engineering showing your size is correct.

While the code may be silent on the issue, I think he is within the spirit of the code.

Top
#49234 - 03/01/05 11:59 PM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
bucketman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 71
Loc: vancouver WA, USA.
250.66 doesn't seem vary silent.
it seems to be directly to the point.
now I've been doen these service changes for a few years and never had the AHJ call me on the 80 some feet of ground condutor be to long.
i just can't see the AHJ call me for something thats not in the code.

Top
#49235 - 03/02/05 05:04 AM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Bucketman, I agree with you, as far as the GEC there is no restriction to length as you have said and in fact if the #4 GEC is bare it becomes part of the "Electrode" and the GE's function won't be improved to any great performance level by increasing the conductor size.

With this length of #4 copper in the ground, and if we were talking about a rod, the conductor would probably provide more of a GE than the rod itself.

Bob, the GE and GEC would play no part in the operation of an overcurret device.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 03-02-2005).]

Top
#49236 - 03/02/05 06:22 AM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
I think the AHJ is acting well beyond the scope of his/her authority.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

Top
#49237 - 03/02/05 10:04 AM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
bucketman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 71
Loc: vancouver WA, USA.
ya, talked to the AHJ to day befor I ripped out all that #4 and he said it was just a consern of his that it be up sized.
So the #4 stands...

But next time I'll just pull #2 because its cool.
I do think it's a good wiring practice and a good Idea and it cant heart but the $$$.

"I think the AHJ is acting well beyond the scope of his/her authority."

That was my hole thought. It was a you can't make me thing.

thanks all for the posts. keepem comen.

Top
#49238 - 03/02/05 10:31 AM Re: "AHJ" says grounding elctrode conductor to long.
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
1) It is not clear that the GEC is in the ground. I assumed it was not.

2) If there are no real concerns about the length, then the diameter does not matter. And we would not have a table of GEC related to service conductor.

The code is silent on the issue of maximum length of the GEC before meeting the grounding electrode.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals