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#47656 - 01/21/05 12:34 PM CNC power
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
Here's a question for you guys that deal with machines alot.

All 3 phase, 4 wire machines here.

Got a cnc lathe that the spindle motor "drifts". Dc motors and drives.

Power to the machine is 220, but the machine is rated 230. Engineer at the plant doesn't think it is power related, he thinks it is noise coming from somewhere, possible grounding issue.

Could it be from the power being low. Most machines and motors have a tolerance of plus or minus 10%, right?

And how do you get rid of noise, possibly noise arrestors?


Anyone have ideas, or maybe some input here?
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#47657 - 01/21/05 12:51 PM Re: CNC power
Crowbar Offline
Member
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 33
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA,USA
By "drifting" I assume (yes I know the 'a' word) the spindle speed is changing while running. What type of feedback is being used for the spindle and what drive also? Could be a speed feedback problem or a mis-adjustment of the P & I pots (or program variables). Some more info on the drive, etc. would be helpful. If I read this wrong and its creeping at standstill it obviously does not have an isolation contactor in the output, and could be indicative of a SCR in the output bridge shorting.
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#47658 - 01/21/05 05:13 PM Re: CNC power
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
New Hardinge 800 cnc lathes.

2 of them have the same problem. The way I understand it is, when the spindle is in stop position, the spindle "creeps" back and forth. The tolerances of the machine are not holding true.

Hardinge says it is power problem, or noise in system. Engineer at plant doesn't think so. I am wondering if it is a ground issue, or noise on the ground. But I would be lost on how to find out if this is true. Hardinge wants ground rods for the machines, but instead we ran insulated grounds back to the panels. Ground rods provide a ground loop, do they not?

Any ideas. Is there noise limited equipment out there? Some type of filters to put on the electrical system?

Dnk
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#47659 - 01/22/05 10:26 AM Re: CNC power
Bjarney Offline
Moderator
Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2527
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
 
I would be insisting the machine-tool manufacturer reasonably demonstrate to you and your client that power quality is unambiguously the cause. There was lot of fingerpointing up to about 15 years ago with major machine-tool producers, and most fixed their designs to work properly on the average industrial power system. Get the machine vendor to find the exact problem, at their expense if they are so sure of themselves, unless prior to purchase they provided a clear disclaimer that any problems were not theirs to deal with,

There are special-purpose, high-harmonic drive-isolation transformers rated 230∆—230Y/133,
that would allow establishing a separately-derived system with local system grounding for each machine, but are pricey with no guarantee as to effectiveness. Smaller sizes have ±5% taps for minor voltage adjustment—~219V on primary. would give ~230V on the secondary. www.acmepowerdist.com/pdf/Page%2046.pdf and www.acmepowerdist.com/pdf/Page%2048.pdf

Hold their feet to the fire!
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#47660 - 01/23/05 06:59 AM Re: CNC power
Dnkldorf Offline
Member
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: nowhere usa
Thanks again for your input on this one too.

I'm gonna have to put you guys on my Christmas mailing list.
Maybe get the woman to make some cookies too......


Thanks again...

Dnk
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#47661 - 01/23/05 02:36 PM Re: CNC power
Crowbar Offline
Member
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 33
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA,USA
Not being familiar with your equipment I'll just throw out some ideas, in the past on my CNC's I've had a D/A output card develop an unstable zero, more of a problem on our carriages and tool slides, as our spindles had (have) either a 3 phase input contactor or a DC output contactor to isolate the spindle when stopped. What type of command signal do you have? (0-10V, serial, etc) The D/A card problem I referred to were all +/- 10VDC outputs. I would probably be worthwhile to scope the command inputs if they are analog to look for irregularities.
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#47662 - 01/23/05 08:29 PM Re: CNC power
buzzlectric Offline
Member
Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Nevada,IA ,USA
check out your resolver/encoder, also ckeck your servo board senseativaty, i sound like its trying too hard to hold a "zero" point, ground is also suspect aswell as noise.
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