The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Today at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 282 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#45032 - 11/17/04 04:54 PM ITE AFCI breakers NFG
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
I have two new houses I'm finishing and the ITE arc fault breakers won't trip with the little green Etcon tester. One house with 6 breakers and one with 5 breakers...10 of 11 will not trip with the tester. I have checked everything I know.

What do you guys use to test your arc fault breakers?

Has anybody else had the same trouble with ITE arc fault breakers?

I'm going to the supply house in the morning to get 10 replacements...on my gas and my time though

shortcircuit

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#45033 - 11/17/04 07:23 PM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
Electric Eagle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 928
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Are you sure it's the breakers and not the tester. I know Siemens breakers aren't the best, but 10 of 11 seems like a high failure rate. Do they trip with the test button?

Top
#45034 - 11/17/04 09:42 PM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
caselec Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 557
Loc: San Jose, CA
What Etcon tester do you have? Etcon has had some issues with their AFCI testers.

Do the test buttons on the AFCI's work? If so then the AFCI's are working.

Curt
_________________________
Curt Swartz

Top
#45035 - 11/17/04 09:49 PM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
shortcircuit,

Before you do anything look at the following:
http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000287.html

Top
#45036 - 11/18/04 02:21 AM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
Bill...thanx for the info about the Etcon tester.That is the tester I use.The local inspector uses the little green Etcon tester to check the breakers. What other testers are available to test these AFCI breakers?

The breakers do trip with the test button on the breaker. I also tried to cross the neutral to ground at an outlet in the branch circuit to trip the breaker,but the breaker would not trip,and this test would trip an AFCI breaker in the past for me.

shortcircuit

Top
#45037 - 11/18/04 07:44 AM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
First thing I would do is print out that info and give it to the Inspector if that's the tester he uses. Then you could look for another tester if you want.

The N - G thing you were trying would only be testing the GFCI characteristic of the AFCI. You can do the same thing with a GFCI tester.

Bill

Top
#45038 - 11/18/04 08:05 AM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
caselec Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 557
Loc: San Jose, CA
I think the manufactures must have increased the current of the ground fault protection recently. I was previously able to always trip AFCI's by connecting a wiggy between the hot and EGC but this doesn't work anymore at least with the new Square D breakers. The tester you have is probably only testing the GFP circuit of the AFCI.

I don't think and inspector can require you to test AFCI's tested with a tester. That's what the test button is for. Push the test button then check to make sure all the required outlets are de-energized.
_________________________
Curt Swartz

Top
#45039 - 11/18/04 11:33 AM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
I called Etcon today and they said that their isn't anything wrong with the AF120 tester, that it only did not have the proper UL stamp on the tester case they used when they first manurfactured them in 2002.They said that there is no recall or safety hazard from useing the tester.The guy at Etcon said that the tester applies a 10ma fault which causes the breaker to trip.He said this fault is from ground to hot. What do you think Bill?

Also I traced the date code on the ITE AFCI breakers and found that they were manurfactured in October 2004...I went back to the supply house and found some on the shelf made in August 2004 and installed them at the job and they tripped with the AFCI tester.

caselec...All the inspectors use testers for the GFCI and AFCI breakers...and they won't accept a job unless the tester trips the breaker.

shortcircuit

Top
#45040 - 11/18/04 01:14 PM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
If all it does it to apply a 10 mA ground fault, then you are not testing the AFCI. All you are testing is the ground fault part of the AFCI. Also most of the things that I have read about AFCIs say that the ground fault trip setting is 30 to 50 mA.
If the test button on the AFCI works, the AFCI is OK.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 11-18-2004).]
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

Top
#45041 - 11/18/04 01:34 PM Re: ITE AFCI breakers NFG
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
The info came from UL: http://www.ul.com/media/newsrel/nr092402.html

If it only tests with a 10ma ground fault it is not testing the AFCI function. There are other testers which test by actually producing an arc.

As caselec says, I think that the first AFCIs we saw were more sensitive to ground faults than the ones that are being made today. This would explain why your tester doesn't work with newer AFCI Breakers.

Here's some info from Siemens that supports this:
http://www.sea.siemens.com/reselec/product/rzafcifaq.html#11

Notice the following in particular:
 Quote:
AFCIs produced before July 2002 have a threshold between 7mA and 12mA, and AFCI produced after July 2002 have a differential threshold closer to 30mA.


Bill



[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-18-2004).]

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals