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#43750 - 10/21/04 08:12 PM Required equipment? employer, or employee
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
I know this may have been touched in other past posts, but.....

If an Employer says Employees are required to have, lets say 'Steel toed boots', is this an employer, or employee cost?

Lets take this further...

If an Employer says Employees are required to have, lets say 'an extention cord, is this an employer, or employee cost?

Lets take this further...still.

If an Employer says Employees are required to have, lets say 'a 66 and 110 blade punch down tool'(for phone work), is this an employer, or employee cost?

Lets take this further...even still.

What happens when this required equipment is lost, stolen, or wears out?

What's you opinion, or policy? Or law refferance?
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#43751 - 10/21/04 08:39 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
The only thing I can think of is the IRS allowance for "unreimbursed employee expenses" on a schedule A...

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#43752 - 10/21/04 09:02 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
KennyFrank Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 28
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
DougW makes a good point for sure, as far as where to recover the costs. Most Union rules / bylaws include a list of hand tools that an electrician must have in his tool bag - this list varies WILDLY from local to local: I've heard of differences from 25 to 75 tools, ranging from screwdrivers of several sizes and types, folding rules, several channellock pliers, drills and taps, hacksaw frame, nut drivers, and on and on. Does anybody know if the non-union groups like IEC have required tool lists for their members?
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#43753 - 10/21/04 10:01 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
u2slow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Salt Spring, BC, Canada
Where I work...

Required means I provide. Recommended items, they provide incentive by paying 50%.

IMO, doesn't make sense for an employer to stipulate "required" if he is providing. The equipment would simply be provided, right?

I lose my tools, I replace them. Somebody loses my tools, they replace them. I lose company tools... company replaces. They can replace me too


[This message has been edited by u2slow (edited 10-22-2004).]

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#43754 - 10/22/04 01:51 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
classicsat Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 449
Saftey boots an apparrel: Employee

Common tools: Employee

Tools special to the job Employer or both.

Sitewide tools (which a crew as a whole would use or share the use of): employer.

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#43755 - 10/22/04 03:31 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
golf junkie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 511
Loc: York, NE
We operate pretty much the same as u2slow.

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#43756 - 10/22/04 03:45 PM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
My employers have always used the union list as a guide, although I suspect none of them have ever seen it.

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#43757 - 10/25/04 01:15 AM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
Big Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 377
Loc: Denver, CO USA
This is probably a pretty unusual situation. When I started in industrial maintenance with the Postal Service, I was told that they would provide all the tools I needed and I was not allowed to bring any personal tools into the facility. That came as a real shock but, after 20 years of buying tools for work elsewhere, I sure have a nice set of tools at home now.
They also provide a clothing allowance for all the maintenance employees

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#43758 - 10/25/04 01:46 AM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Personally, when I was doing EC work, we provided our own hand tools, which in a sense was a better system, because if you lost or damaged a particular tool, it came out of your pocket to replace it.
You also bought your own safety boots, but were paid a footwear allowance.
Overalls were supplied by the employer and were also laundered at the cost of the employer.
All other safety equipment was also supplied by the employer.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#43759 - 10/25/04 02:58 AM Re: Required equipment? employer, or employee
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
The reason I ask is that I am trying to interpet a set of and Health/Safety, and Labor Codes. And seeing that many of us are at least apt to be able to interpet the NEC and other Codes, maybe we could give it a shot? Cause the way I read this is that I should nevr buy anything again.....

 Quote:
Title 8 regarding uniforms and equipment of the Construction Wage orders: http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/11160.html (see below)

8. Uniforms and Equipment.

(A) When the employer requires uniforms to be worn by the employee as a condition of employment, such uniforms shall be provided and maintained by the employer. The term "uniform" includes wearing apparel and accessories of distinctive design or color.

(B) When the employer requires the use of tools or equipment or they are necessary for the performance of a job, such tools and equipment shall be provided and maintained by the employer, except that an employee whose wages are at least two (2) times the minimum wage may provide and maintain hand tools and equipment customarily required by the particular trade or craft in conformity with Labor Code Section 2802.

Reference to Labor Code: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=02001-03000&file=2800-2810

2802. (a) An employer shall indemnify his or her employee for all
necessary expenditures or losses incurred by the employee in direct
consequence of the discharge of his or her duties, or of his or her
obedience to the directions of the employer, even though unlawful,
unless the employee, at the time of obeying the directions, believed
them to be unlawful.
(b) All awards made by a court or by the Division of Labor
Standards Enforcement for reimbursement of necessary expenditures
under this section shall carry interest at the same rate as judgments
in civil actions. Interest shall accrue from the date on which the
employee incurred the necessary expenditure or loss.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term "necessary expenditures
or losses" shall include all reasonable costs, including, but not
limited to, attorney's fees incurred by the employee enforcing the
rights granted by this section.
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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