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#38759 - 05/31/04 10:18 PM two prong vs GFCI outlet
Edward Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 309
Loc: California
Is replacing two prong outlet with a GFCI really a solution to a non grounding outlet or just a bandaide approach?

I would rather rewire with a grounding then install a GFCI.

What do you fellows think?

Thanks
Edward
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Thanks
Edward

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#38760 - 05/31/04 11:52 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Big Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 377
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Hey, sparky, I got a hundret dollars and this busted plug. Can you fix 'er up?
I don't think there is any question that everyone would prefer to rewire with ground included but the real world doesn't work that way. I've still got 2 strings of 2 prong outlets running downstream from ungrounded GFCIs in my own house. Some day, they'll get replaced but I did all I could before we moved in. With the GFCI, they are a lot safer than they used to be.

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#38761 - 06/01/04 05:08 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
BPHgravity Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Port Charlotte, Florida
Most of the general-use equipment being plugged into 15- and 20-ampere receptacles only have two prong attachment plugs anyway, and those that do have 3 prongs don't usually have exposed metallic or grounded parts. Everything is plastic. You really only run into issues with refrigerators and washers.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

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#38762 - 06/01/04 06:07 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
250.114 says that you can't use the GFCI method for any of these:
--------------------------------
(3) In residential occupancies:
a. Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners
b. Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing machines; kitchen waste disposers; information technology equipment; sump pumps and electrical aquarium equipment
c. Hand-held motor-operated tools, stationary and fixed motor-operated tools, light industrial motor-operated tools
d. Motor-operated appliances of the following types: hedge clippers, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and wet scrubbers
e. Portable handlamps
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#38763 - 06/01/04 06:27 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Ok Ryan nice point. Now how would you enforce this.

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#38764 - 06/01/04 06:35 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
How would I enforce it? You act like a permit would be taken out!!

Honestly, if I were to run into this in the feild as an inspector I would give the owner the list I provided and say "here you go"! If they violated it and something bad happened it would be assumption of risk on their behalf and not negligence on mine.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#38765 - 06/01/04 11:50 PM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Hey Ryan, in practice most of the stuff you mentioned is actually double-insulated, so it wouldn't even matter to connect it withouzt a GFI. A ground is definitely _not_ necessary for technical reasons. Where would it go with a 2-prong plug? IT equipment does need a ground, both because it often comes in metal enclosures and for static discharge. For the latter reason an ungrounded GFI is not good for this kind of equipment.

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#38766 - 06/02/04 03:25 AM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Actually most of the stuff in that is not double insulated.

 Quote:
Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing machines; kitchen waste disposers; information technology equipment; sump pumps


I have never seen double insulated versions of the items on that list.

This is why I do not think replacing a two wire outlet with a 3 wire one is the best move.

My choice would be a GFCI breaker and leave the two wire outlets.

The GFCI breaker would help when they use a 'cheater' adapter.

Ryan, you do not pull a permit when you plug in your appliances?

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#38767 - 06/02/04 06:32 AM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
iwire, a and b not, but c to d are IMHO mostly double-isolated (not necessarily all of c, only handheld). At any rate a GFI is good with that stuff.

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#38768 - 06/03/04 05:48 AM Re: two prong vs GFCI outlet
Attic Rat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 530
Loc: Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
... At this juncture,I have to pose a question.. I'd heard that GFCI's as a rule "don't like" motor loads,ie;...Refrigerator compressors,washing machine
motors,..etc,because they "see" the start up windings as a short,and result in nuisance tripping..is this true..??
Russ
_________________________
.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"

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