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#3801 - 08/29/01 08:29 PM Air tight high hats
silverbk Offline
Member
Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 60
I recently ran into some trouble with a tricky Town here.

Has anyone ever been required to install air tight recessed cans by a town or AHJ? Today the inspector failed my 6" IC rated cans and stated they need to be air tight. I have 15 years in the trade and work all over this county and have never heard anything like this before. As far as I know there is no energy code in force here like CA or WA.
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#3802 - 08/30/01 03:01 AM Re: Air tight high hats
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
silverbk,

did he cite an NEC code violation? Or is this some building inspector?
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#3803 - 08/30/01 05:07 AM Re: Air tight high hats
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4259
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Are you working in a plenum ceiling?

We in CA aren't required by our incredibly strict energy regs to do that.
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#3804 - 08/30/01 06:07 AM Re: Air tight high hats
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3875
Loc: NY, USA
Where are you located and what type of situation (Building, Construction etc) is this in?

Bill
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#3805 - 08/31/01 05:55 AM Re: Air tight high hats
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
Some locations in Wisconcisn are requiring the use of air tight devices and boxes to prevent compromising the insulation system vapor barrier.

They have been rigid with the IC cans, but are still lax concerning the switch and recept boxes.
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#3806 - 08/31/01 08:46 AM Re: Air tight high hats
Redsy Offline
Member
Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2056
Loc: Bucks County PA
Quote:
Originally posted by JBD:


They have been rigid with the IC cans, but are still lax concerning the switch and recept boxes.


Please, who makes "air tight" cans, or what renders a can airtight?
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#3807 - 08/31/01 04:30 PM Re: Air tight high hats
silverbk Offline
Member
Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 60
This is a residential setting ie a private house. There is no plenum. It is a sheet rock ceiling that will be insulated. This was by order of an electrical inspector from the New York Board of Fire Underwriters. The inspectors here apparently go along with whatever municipality or utility has juristiction.

Air tite recessed cans are nothing new they are available from most can manufacturers, they are however more expensive than ic and non-ic cans and are usually special order.

I am going to challenge the inspector to see why he is demanding this requirement. I am using ul listed ic rated cans and unless he is going to pull some kind of energy code on me they should suffice.
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#3808 - 08/31/01 06:56 PM Re: Air tight high hats
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4259
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Don't CHALLENGE the inspector. Simply and calmly ask him to cite the codes that you've violated. Then, if after going over the code sections together, come to a simple agreement. Do what is agreed on. A challenge is about the fastest way to PO an inspector.
Don't roll over, and don't back off if you're right, but do your homework before you call him down.

If the problem lies with the distance from insulation, they needn't be airtight, unless required by, like you say, another code. Any form of effective barrier should be OK in that case.





[This message has been edited by electure (edited 08-31-2001).]
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#3809 - 09/07/01 05:05 AM Re: Air tight high hats
Redsy Offline
Member
Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2056
Loc: Bucks County PA
I am finishing up a kitchen re-model that someone else started and was fired from. It is a one story addition (the opposite of the ceiling is the roof). The first contractor roughed-in hi-hat housings that have shoe box sized housings,(I believe MR-16 fixtures) I think they may be airtight. Maybe due to the ceiling being opposite the roof there is an energy issue. Is this an energy, or fire safety requirement?
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#3810 - 09/07/01 02:41 PM Re: Air tight high hats
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
Redsy;
i couldn't find you a pix but this is from the RUUD lighting site;

New Airtight Recessed Cans
Recessed downlights can create open airways between temperature-controlled rooms and their uncontrolled attic or plenum spaces. Our new Insulated Ceiling Air Tight Recessed Downlights (ICAT Series) minimize air infiltration and leakage. This is especially important in states where codes require airtight recessed fixtures. Our ICAT Series is offered in three popular models, 4" Incandescent (R4ICAT), 6" Incandescent (R7ICAT) and 6" Fluorescent with 18W lamp (R7FICAT18). For other projects where direct contact with insulated ceiling materials may occur, use the 4" Low Voltage Incandescent (R4LICAT), 6" Economy Incandescent (R7EIC) or 6" Incandescent for remodel projects (R7RIC). If you choose to use another housing, be sure the insulation is at least 3" away from housing and junction box.


all they have different is a gasket around the trim hole, big !*&%$ deal! They are buried in insulation as it is. I also had an architect spec out vapor barior boxes once, they come with a little plastic flap. Being that i live up in the great white north i get this all the time, people retire here, build a post & beam streesskin home, insulated to R-346 to the point where the piolets go out in the stove and furnace due to lack of O2, and mama always has a headache...he**, a fart sticks around 3 days....but they save a whole 20% off normal construction fuel costs by god!
A few homes that i did like this came to the relization that they had a problem, so then they called in some NEW engineers that addressed the air exchanging, more ductwork etc...
There seems to be this manufacturing hype that drives this 'energy code' thing.....

Let 'em all go cut wood I say, maybe then they would'nt grow A***s the shapes of thier chairs an' stumble around for thier nitro everytime the doorbell rings
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