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#3671 - 08/26/01 12:55 PM Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
electricj Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/01
Posts: 10
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
Hi,
I almost never do service changes, (just for friends) I have been asked to do a 100 amp service change and trying to price it for this person. I recently updated my license and the instructor warned us about these new "arc suppression devices" which will be needed for all bedrooms. My question is this, when I do the service change, will the inspector make me install these arc suppression devices? -- Also if I want to do the service in copper what size Service Entrance cable?

Thanks

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#3672 - 08/26/01 02:04 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Strictly speaking, you will not have to install AFCI's until the 2002 NEC(unless locla codes require them now). However, since you are going to be doing an upgrade, why not install the devices for the added margin of safety? Table 310-15(b)(6) permits #4 copper for 100 amp residential services.

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#3673 - 08/26/01 03:54 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
electricj Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/01
Posts: 10
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
Thanks for the reply,
The reason I ask, is because I do not want to look like I am padding the bill for this "friend of a friend". Of course, this customer wouldn't understand the extra charge if it wasn't necessary. I just want to give him a competitive price, I figure around $800.00 for this service change, I don't want to add extra cost (to him or me)unless I have to.

So... Is the 2002 code in effect at this moment? Do you know when it will be in effect if it is not now.

Thanks for the help.

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#3674 - 08/26/01 06:05 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
I think that locations "adopt" the code at there own pace...

Wisconsin didn't adopt the '99 code until March '99. I'm not sure if WV automatically adopts the new code or if there is legislation (like WI) that slows it down a bit.

As far as other states, try contacting your local AHJ... (Most would rather answer questions than tell you it's wrong after the fact...)

I'm installing AFCI's in the house I'm wiring now, and in the rest from now on... I figure it's close enough to 2002 to establish the habits now... and most won't be final-punched-out until 1-1-02 anyway...

Steve (sparky), what do you think?
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#3675 - 08/26/01 07:13 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
electricj Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/01
Posts: 10
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
OK,
Let me show you my ignorance of this subject, you say you are "installing them now" --- are these breakers or are these receptacles; my idea of these "things" are what gfci's were when I got in the business; (could be either but breakers more expensive then receptacles); am I right?

Well more importantly, what should I add to the quote If I am at $800.00 now?

Thanks

j

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#3676 - 08/26/01 07:47 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
They come in either variety, but the range of protection may be in question. (I don't fully understand it) Something to do with protection downstream of the device itself in Recept type AFCI's...

The ones available to me are Circuit Breakers. GE 1-20's are about $39, Cutler-Hammer 1-20's are about $29. Add the cost of one for each circuit feeding bedroom outlets in the house. It ain't a bad idea to put them on all circuits that have old or questionable wiring. The extra labor is next to negligible... A couple of extra terminals is all...

Steve (sparky) is our resident expert on AFCI's (his state, Vermont, has been requiring them since Jan 2001).

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-26-2001).]
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#3677 - 08/27/01 05:35 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Virgil;
actually I could'nt have said it better.

It's only a matter of time , and AFCI's will be old hat for the lot of us

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#3678 - 08/27/01 05:58 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
At this time the code only permits the use of AFCI breakers. The code section requires AFCI protection for the branch circuit and that can only be acomplished with a breaker.
Don(resqcapt19)
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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#3679 - 08/28/01 07:32 PM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
electricj Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/01
Posts: 10
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
Thanks for the input everyone, I guess I will put in my quote that the Inspector may require it, but that I am not sure.

I honestly thought that the entire country went strictly by the NEC and that an inspector could not require something that wasn't in the NEC at the time. I think in one of my renewal classes I was told that.

In the 80's I had an inspector who required copper services and would tell you so before you even began the job. He justified it by saying he was near the Ocean and wanted to prevent problems associated with the salt water.

Does that kind of stuff still happen? Not that I'm a big fighter on that kind of stuff, If I know an inspector looks for something, I will do it, it's just that I don't have the time to find out what each town's inspector will do.

I am warning the customer that the it may cost him about $80.00 more for the aec supression.

j

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#3680 - 08/29/01 03:56 AM Re: Service change, do I need to add Arc Supression?
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
 Quote:
Originally posted by electricj:
I honestly thought that the entire country went strictly by the NEC and that an inspector could not require something that wasn't in the NEC at the time. I think in one of my renewal classes I was told that.

j

The NEC is adopted on a local basis. Some localities may adopt any edition a few years after it is released. Some may not at all.
And some have local codes that go beyond that which the NEC requires. It's always best to call and ask before you do a job that you are unsure of.

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