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#36541 - 04/09/04 12:46 PM Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
dougwells  Offline


Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,137
kamloops BC Canada
On tues I have a meeting with a Leviton Rep and was wondering if I should persue hard wire over wireless. I would like to be able to charge around 90.00 per drop and was wondering how to quote the distribution panel in new resi type home. How competitive is this field.Any info would be greatly apprecaited and thanks


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#36542 - 04/09/04 01:21 PM Re: Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
Doug,

There are still systems that need wires like intercom, whole house audio, security cameras etc. The rep can expand on these options.

At the last SW course I took the rep said that about $100 per drop was about the standard. Two Cat5 and 2 RG6 at one plate = 4 drops. The cabinets need to be sized for the systems that will be installed. All the options for phone, data and CATV or satellite will fit in the small enclosures. I had my area OnQ rep walk the job with me and make up the material list and to help me plan my first job.

Check out whether the system uses punchdowns or if the cables terminate in RJ45 jacks.

As far as competition you could check the phone book to see how many even list the option in their ad. Perhaps the rep can tell you about how much demand they are seeing for this wiring.

You can also checkout www.onqtech.com and www.greyfox.com

I should be here tonight for the chat or email me later.


#36543 - 04/09/04 05:49 PM Re: Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
hbiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
Hawthorne, NY USA
I was an electrical contractor and have been a telecom contractor exclusively now for many years. I'm from the old school as far as communications wiring goes, been doing it since the 60's. No such thing as "stuctured wiring" as far as I'm concerned. Talk to the rep but remember he is a salesman. I recommend that you not get involved with or limit yourself to one particular product line. We use Leviton jacks but that is as far as it goes, there are a lot of other companies out there that provide quality products and materials.

Distribution panel? We don't need no stinkin' distribution panel! Data lines get punched down on a patch panel attached to the wall (on a nice big backboard) for connection to a router or hub. Many times on smaller or low priced jobs we will just press a RJ-45 plug on the end of the data cables for connection and forego the patch panel altogether. Voice lines get punched down on a 66 or 110 block nearby for connection by whomever. RG-6's get cut to length ready for the cable guy. Bring all of this into one of those "distribution panels" and somebody will just have to bring everything back out anyway so why bother. Save the money and put it in your pocket. Simply charge per run and also for the time and materials to terminate it on the patch panel, punch block, etc.

I recommend also that you stay away from the all-in-one cable that has a couple of CAT5's, RG-6's and maybe even fiber under one jacket. Every jack location does not require all services and this stuff is a big waste of money.

Our pricing starts at $100 per run. (Another reason not to use that all-in-one cable.)That's for runs in a dropped ceiling and fished down a non-insulated wall. New resi construction would be the same. Charge that for existing construction, or where fishing and raceway may be needed and you will loose your shirt though.

Wireless? Yup, that's a real possibibility. Keep in mind that todays CAT5e or CAT6 is tomorrows twine to tie up bundles of newspapers.

As for competition, I find that nearly all electrical contractors, alarm and computer guys (at least in this area) will provide some sort of network and voice wiring. Whether or not it's done well is another matter and this is one way you can gain an advantage. Do nice, neat and consistant installations that another person can follow and work with.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 04-09-2004).]


#36544 - 04/09/04 06:59 PM Re: Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
dougwells  Offline


Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,137
kamloops BC Canada
Yes thanks Hal I have heard that all in one cable is horrible to work with I will stay away from it.thanks for the input and I do know that he is a salesman haha, And he is probably more concerned about his well being than a costumers


#36545 - 04/09/04 08:27 PM Re: Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Quote

Data lines get punched down on a patch panel attached to the wall (on a nice big backboard) for connection to a router or hub. Many times on smaller or low priced jobs we will just press a RJ-45 plug on the end of the data cables for connection and forego the patch panel altogether. Voice lines get punched down on a 66 or 110 block nearby for connection by whomever. RG-6's get cut to length ready for the cable guy.


Same for me on "Simple" Residential LAN / MATV Installs.
Since there's only going to be maybe 8 Data lines used maximum, I'll just land them directly to the Switch (crimp on a Mod. Plug to the end of the cable and plug it directly into the Switch - no patch panel needed).

If needed / requested, will use a 24 port patch panel, mounted to a nice clean backboard.

Mount a 66 block there too, and terminate the voice lines to it.

Make up all the MATV (CATV) runs on the same backboard.

I have pretty much only used Leviton Mod. Jacks, which makes me kind of biased! They have done well for me so far.

If you are planning to include these Low Voltage System installs, that's a good benefit for your Company.
It will be a good additional specialty type design / install area for your Company.

Try to get as much "Non-Biased" information on how to perform these system installs. Many here have lots of experince in these systems and may offer advice + references (as you have seen in this thread).

Wireless Home LANS (WiFi / IEEE 802.11) is catching more interest, but it is only 1/4 - 1/6 of the low voltage systems used.
There will be hard wired systems - such as MATV (CATV), Voice Lines, Audio, Security / CCTV, Intercom, and the like.
Include WiFi in your installations and training / knowledge base, as you will likely be the one setting up equipment on many Wireless home LANs.

As an extra helpful package, being quite comfortable and familliar with PC Hardware installs + troubleshooting is a very good idea.

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#36546 - 04/09/04 08:57 PM Re: Pros and Cons of structured wiring  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
hbiss,
stuctured wiring panels are about as useful as a chrome kleenex dispensor for your car.
One of our distributors, asked why we don't use them, It turns out some supplier sold him a lot and he can't get rid of them. i guess that indicates how many are using them.



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