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#36394 - 04/06/04 02:39 AM Something to Remember before working Live
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
The following pictures show the result of a simple line to ground fault on a 277 volt lighting circuit.

You can see the plastic switch housing melted from the heat.

Luckily the cover plate was in place when this flashed, all that happened to the person that turned the switch on was a good scare.








[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 04-06-2004).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#36395 - 04/06/04 12:54 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Wow! Since I primarily do residential work, I've never encountered a 277/480 volt circuit.

However, this forum and pictures like these have made me well aware of the added danger.

Bob, was this caused by a wiring error (skinned wire, etc) or a fault with the motion sensor itself?
_________________________
Peter

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#36396 - 04/06/04 02:31 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
This was a wiring problem.

I do not know if the wire was damaged by the roto zip of the dry wall guy or if the wire was pinched when stuffing the MS into the box.

It was the wire on the load side of the switch, the MS was installed and the circuit turned on, then when someone pushed the button on the MS it "lit up".

Remember this is just a 277 volt fault not a 480 fault and the 20 amp breaker never tripped, the wire was blown apart clearing the fault.

Just something to think about before sticking your fingers into a live 277 volt (or any voltage) box.

On the same job a sprinkler contractor thought he would help me out and move a live 277 volt 2' x 4' troffer, well the wiring plate came off when it was jammed against duct work and the 12 AWG was cut into by the troffer.

Again the breaker did not trip, the wire just blew apart, this guy did not even know how lucky he was not to have gotten blasted.

My guess is the wooded ladder kept him from being a conductor, as the light fixture enclosure was 'hot' for a short period of time.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#36397 - 04/06/04 02:41 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
big guy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 52
Loc: pa
I use 4x21/8 box on all dimmers GFCI and other biger switches that takes more
space than a general snap switch. That is why i do it big guy

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#36398 - 04/06/04 02:54 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Big Guy That describes every box on this job.

All the boxes I purchase (the Company purchases ) are 4" Sq deeps and this has a 3/4" raised ring on it.

Only 3 - 12/2s in this box, out of about 100 of these MS, only one blew up.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#36399 - 04/06/04 03:07 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
big guy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 52
Loc: pa
ok it looked like a 4x1.5 anyway thing like this happen's Hay maybe no anti-short
LOL just joking

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#36400 - 04/06/04 03:33 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Bob, just curious, do you also use the color coded MC cable? like the brown/gray for 277 etc. Not a code requirement, I realize, but makes the job easier.

Also, when you say the wire "blew apart," I assume you mean the copper vaporized and splattered everywhere?
Peter

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 04-06-2004).]
_________________________
Peter

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#36401 - 04/06/04 04:16 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
Nick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 603
Loc: Riverside, CA
CT,
Technically it is a code requirement, though rarely followed. Not the colors necessarily but differentiating systems. Take a look at 210.4(D)

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#36402 - 04/06/04 04:31 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
"The Watt Stops Here"...well, almost
Where did you find cable with all black conductors?

Seriously, this could very easily happen to a finger or hand, and they can't be replaced like boxes and wire.

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#36403 - 04/06/04 04:31 PM Re: Something to Remember before working Live
:andy: Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 272
Loc: Germany
can anyone get me some info. i still don't look through these things, like breaker reset arc-flash ect.
never heard of things like these here.
If you short 230V to N/ground here, you will trip the breaker, and thats it.
and breakers usually trip before you fire up a milimeter of wire.

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