The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell
01/19/17 07:16 PM
failed home inspection.
by gfretwell
01/19/17 07:03 PM
Webmaster > Admin
by Admin
01/19/17 05:49 PM
Old Bath Fan
by gfretwell
01/19/17 01:38 AM
Search Function
by Admin
01/18/17 11:13 PM
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 32
HotLine1 21
Ruben Rocha 16
gfretwell 15
Trumpy 13
Who's Online
2 registered (Admin, ComputerWizKid), 0 Guests and 188 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#35572 - 03/14/04 08:33 PM Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
CalSparky Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Northern California
I have a metalic enclosure sandwiched between RNC. I'd like to use a two-terminal landing lug to serve not only as my grounding means but to also splice the grounds (splicing SE cable to THHN). My question is: "Can I use standard bolts, lockwashers, and nuts to fix the lug to the enclosure or must I use some sort of listed components (i.e. specialized nuts, bolts, and washers)?". According to 250.8 (2002 NEC) the stuff must be listed but the folks that I've been talking to have said that standard hardware is good 'nough. My common sense says that standard hardware with lock washers should hold for eternity but I'd like more feedback. I've left messages for the local inspectors without a word back. Any help is appreciated.
By the way, if someone out there has had success with something other than a landing lug, please let me know -- Thanks.

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#35573 - 03/14/04 08:45 PM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
Edward Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 309
Loc: California
If i am understanding you correctly?
I have done that installation many times and inspection has passed with out any Ifs, Ors and Buts.
However, i am sure you know this the paint of the enclosure must come off first. The lug must make a good mechanical contact with the enclosure.

Edward

PS. where abouts are you in N.Cali.
_________________________
Thanks
Edward

Top
#35574 - 03/14/04 08:49 PM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
Standard hardware is OK. Scrape the paint off in the area under the lug. Apply Noalox or coppercoat to make a better connection and
stop rust. I use Stainless.

Top
#35575 - 03/14/04 09:05 PM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
CalSparky Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Northern California
Thanks for the feedback!
Yea .. on the paint thing I have had success with removing strips of paint by lightly letting my cordless drill "dance" accross the metal with a metal drill bit. Are strips good enough (something tells me "no") or should there not be a stitch of paint under the lug?

P.S. Northern Sacramento (Roseville-Rocklin area)

Top
#35576 - 03/14/04 10:18 PM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
Edward Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 309
Loc: California
A drill bit does not work as well as a filler. it is a small 1/4 inch shaft with teeth at the end and on the sides. It is a round file which can be used on a drill motor. It works great.
I would take off paint larger than the area of the lug.Get it down to bare metal.

Edward
_________________________
Thanks
Edward

Top
#35577 - 03/15/04 02:32 AM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Go to the Big Orange Box store and pick up a wire brush for your cordless @ $2.00 it is worth while, it will clean the paint off of any enclosure for a good contact.

Any nuts and bolts are OK just try to size them to the hole in the lug, not really a code issue but using a 1/4" bolt with fender washers on a lug with a 1/2" hole looks real unprofessional in my opinion not to mention you can get far better clamping pressure with the larger bolt.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#35578 - 03/15/04 02:37 AM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
rizer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 90
Loc: bradenton ,fl.,usa
absolutely, positively remove all the paint . i was called out to a womans home who was getting shocked by her dryer.(1989).
i looked at her panel and found the ground wire had been installed on a mechanical lug added to the panel. i turned off the light in the closet and saw a tiny ball of blue flame at the corner of the lug trying to eat a hole through the paint. after removing the paint the problem was solved.

Top
#35579 - 03/15/04 05:30 AM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
Attic Rat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 530
Loc: Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
...What about "tapping" the hole out to accept a 10-32..or 1/4-20 bolt..?? How thick is the enclosure wall??..Granted,paint removal still applies..
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 03-15-2004).]
_________________________
.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"

Top
#35580 - 03/15/04 05:46 AM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
250.8 only covers the lug, which must be listed. The mounting hardware is overlooked.
I asked this question of James Stallcup at a seminar. He said to use stainless with two washers and a locknut. Remove all paint to bare metal. Use an oxide inhibiter like penetrox or copper coat. You may paint the entire assembly, after the inspection.

Earl
_________________________
Earl

Top
#35581 - 03/15/04 08:36 AM Re: Listed Hardware for Landing Lugs as GND?
CalSparky Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Northern California
It turns out that the landing lug has a quarter inch hole, so the 10-32 screw wouldn't work out unless you really torqued it down. Thanks for the feedback (that goes for all)!

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals