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#34178 - 02/05/04 10:56 AM Inspectors who are jerks!!!
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
We work in many different jurisdictions. I have run across several inspectors that have called us on things that are not referred to in the NEC or UBC. When I cautiously and respectfully bring this to their attention,they could care less if it's in the code book and insist that I do it anyway. I know it's up to them to interprete the code as they please. We have even had inspectors pay us back for our scrutiny by adding new unfounded corrections on a follow up visit. Anyone have the same experience and have any suggestions in dealing with these guys.

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#34179 - 02/05/04 01:21 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
NJwirenut Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/01
Posts: 816
Loc: Bergen County, NJ
 Quote:
I know it's up to them to interprete the code as they please.


But it ISN'T up to an inspector to interpret code "as they please". They can ONLY enforce the codes as adopted in the particular jurisdiction. If they are trying to enforce something that isn't in the NEC, then that requirement needs to be spelled out as a "local amendment" to the NEC, and the inspector needs to be able to cite the local regulation/ordinance "chapter and verse" (and provide you a copy), or he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

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#34180 - 02/05/04 06:25 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
WEWire2:

If you were here in NJ I could help you. We have procedures to resolve situations.

I can't speak for the whole stste, but in areas that I'm familiar with....the 'old boys club'...'my way'....'I want'....'I like it this way' crap is stopping.

I'm a Lic EC, and a P/T AHJ, so I see, and work both sides of the fence. NO, I don't work where I inspect, nor any town that 'touches' it.

A great state like Ca must have a procedure in place to handle situations like this.

John
_________________________
John

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#34181 - 02/06/04 01:49 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
wewire2;

Could you elaborate as to what the Inspectors are asking for?

Is it something per Title 24, part 3 (California Electrical Code, or simply CEC), is it per Title 24, part 6 (Energy Conservation), or is it something that maybe in a Local (City / County) Electrical Code.

I'm an Engineer / Designer and Installer, and also from California (Southern California - Orange County), so maybe I could offer some assistance.

Scott35
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#34182 - 02/06/04 03:13 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
golf junkie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 511
Loc: York, NE
We have run into this situation before and gone over the inspectors head to his boss. The issue was resolved in our favor.

However, be aware that you may have to deal with the same inspector in the future and he will do his best to make your life difficult. I guess the bottom line is choose your battles wisely. Sometimes it's just not worth the hassle and time to battle with them........other times it's a big $$ issue and you have to stand your ground.

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#34183 - 02/06/04 04:04 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Oh, boy.
You might have lit my fuse.

I'm sick and tired of seeing correction notices without a bit of substantiation.
Give me your "darn" Code reference, Mr AHJ)
My job is very often to go out and correct the dumb stuff that others do, and make it compliant.
I see you're from Atascadero (BTW, welcome, and keep posting your experiences; we can all learn from them).

The CEC has pretty much put the clamps on this "my town, my way" crap. The municipalities are allowed to amend the Code within a very limited number of areas (seismic, topographical, administrative, and very limited others).

Ask for a Code Reference!!! Oh, golly, now I'm mad...S

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#34184 - 02/06/04 06:39 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
I thought this would "Get 'Yer Goat" Scott!


(this message is just for fun - no insults intended).

I am really curious as to what "wewire2" had dealt with.

I forgot to verify with "wewire2", if the Inspectors in question were Building Department Personnel, or if they were Client Contracted Specification / Q.C. Inspectors.

As to the latter type of Inspector, this would explain the
"Code? Shmoad! - We don't need no stinking Code Books"
attitude.

Scott35
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#34185 - 02/09/04 07:39 AM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
Hey Guys

I appreciate the interest. NJ wirenut, I was refering to 80.13. John(Hotline 1), what kind of proceedures? The problem with that around here is the price you have to pay in the long run as Golf Junkie mentioned. Electure, thanks for the welcome! Scott 35,
I'm in the middle of a "situation" right now and don't want to get too job specific. The inspectors I deal with are always public locality. I'll give a few instances of what I think are bogus calls I've had, at the risk of being proven wrong on a few.

You have to drive 6 ground rods for a 6 meter commercial overhead bused gutter service?

You can't drill a hole in the expansion plate
of same 6 meter gutter for the grounding electrode conductor entrance, even though it is butted against a wall and could never be used?

You can't run Rigid on outdoor concrete unless it has at least 1/4" space so debris won't accumulate around it?

You can't run Romex in conduit because "it has to breathe?"

I just had an inspector tell me it is no longer legal to run EMT outdoors because the
maufacturers of the fittings(no specific brand) lost their listing that allows them to be UL listed as raintight. Heard of that one yet?

How about a "most ridiculous correction required by an inspector" contest. Any submissions? That ought to be fun!

By the way, by far most of the inspectors I have met have been great. So if you're one of those, no offense. It's those guys with the chip on their shoulder that cost the money.

Thanks

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#34186 - 02/09/04 09:49 AM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
George Corron Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 728
Loc: Lorton, Va USA
The grouped services are required to be bonded to the same electrode, 6 are "OK" if I bond them all together. A bit wierd.

Washdown area, or wet area, 1/4" air space is required, either by minerrallac strap, or service strap will work, BTW it is to prevent WATER, not debris, from collecting.

Don't know about the expansion plate.

Romex "breathes"??? You are allowed to sleeve romex for protection.......... BREATHES??????

OK, Beat this one, water enters building in PVC. Inspector had me remove the GEC from the water pipe (and 2 ground rods) and attach it ONLY to the PVC. I gotta say, I waited until he left, and put it where it belongs. I told this story at an IAEI seminar and had an inspector go off at me yelling that the inspector was the one who know what he was doing and I should not have changed anything..... another bright guy. Luckily, a fellow who "kinda" understood stood up and told the inspector he was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

I'll always be thankful to Bill Sommers for that - check the name on the American Electricians Handbook.

Since then, I have filled the role myself, and 'feel your pain'.

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#34187 - 02/09/04 12:26 PM Re: Inspectors who are jerks!!!
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
WeWire2:

The 'thing' with EMT & 'raintite' compression fittings is a 'ligit' violation.
UL issued a notice that comp fittings were not doing what they are intended to do, and 'un-listed' them. That was about 6-8 month ago, and since, some mfg have regained UL listing. Check your boxes for listing approvals.

As to 'procedures', there are 'Board of Appeals' in all Counties, that meidiate complaints regardinf Code Violations, for all trades.

But, as the wise sages in the above responses stated, you have to choose your battles carefully.

Now, I heard a new one.....romex has to breathe?? This was a much debated subject at another forum (RX in conduit).

As to the 'expansion' plate, you mean a dead end?? I see no reason you can't use that.

As to an interesting violation....how about a one gang plastic old work box (Carlon) that was not 'bonded' (no grd screw/grd clip)
That one is still in my book!

John
_________________________
John

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