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#31251 - 11/15/03 03:49 AM 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
I got 2 calls yesterday about 120 volt, 15 amp branch circuit breakers not resetting.
One followed high winds and briefly flickering lights, the other followed a brief power failure dueing the same high winds.
I got to the first one and found that a short circuit or ground fault appears to be on the branch circuit.
I unplugged all equipment and opened all switches, but the fault still remains.
I fear that I will find the same thing when I investigate the second call.
I'm puzzled as to how wind, or a power failure outside could cause a fault on the interior branch wiring.

I appreciate any input!

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#31252 - 11/15/03 05:29 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
i always think about the amount of punch that is introduced via downed wires ...

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#31253 - 11/15/03 05:38 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
kyme2 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 6
Loc: kentucky
did you replace the breaker just to see if it was just not relatching?

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#31254 - 11/15/03 07:04 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Redsy,

Maybe there's something outside on that circuit too - a Fixture, etc. I've had many situations that were puzzling at first, but after a methodical dissection of the circuit a 'simple' answer was always found.

Sometimes the simple solution involves not assuming facts not in evidence. Unless it's something obvious ignore the wind as coincidental and start there.

Let us know what it was.

Bill

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#31255 - 11/15/03 08:28 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
ElectricAL Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 615
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
Redsy,

I agree with Bill. The customer observed correlation to wind and flicker is probably a red herring. . .but may have a kernel of information in it.

I take all the information that a customer can give and add it to the hopper that holds all known information. This will at least help me to start looking in a specific place.

With the isolation work out of the way, and the short still present, then breaking up the circuit into smaller parts, if at all possible, will further localize the area that will get close scrutany. I suggest following the circuit out of the breaker to any j-boxes and seperating the hots.

I've always liked ones like this. The problem, often, has an interesting story surrounding it.
_________________________
Al Hildenbrand

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#31256 - 11/15/03 09:50 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
I'd suggest breaking up the circuit as Al suggests too. With the wire off the breaker I'd look for something in the middle to separate and retest both halves then split again, etc. Eventually you'll get there and it'll probably be something simple.

Bill

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#31257 - 11/15/03 10:18 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
I'd go along with these comments. The "divide and conquer" approach to localizing the fault usually works in the end.

Maybe there's another outlet somewhere that you haven't found yet feeding a device which has shorted out due to transients during the storm?

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#31258 - 11/15/03 11:29 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
electricman2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 234
Loc: Thomasville, NC USA
Last week a customer has an entire receptacle circuit quit when she bumps the wall with a vacuum cleaner. Found the problem one floor up. Neutral wire backstabbed in a receptacle was loose. Co-incidence? I don't know.

John
_________________________
John

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#31259 - 11/17/03 12:24 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
Big Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 377
Loc: Denver, CO USA
One thing to consider. In high winds, houses tend to shake and vibrate quite a bit. I think there is a chance you'll find a loose wire or maybe even a shorted staple.

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#31260 - 11/18/03 11:54 AM Re: 2 calls, similar problems, different events??
SJT Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 242
Loc: PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
With all the situations regarding trouble shooting in residential, the staple nailed too hard into the cable, I've yet to find. I don't know whether its luck or not. I'm sure, that would be a tough find. I agree to the trouble shooting method, to take a step back and make sure you do have the easy checks out of the way first.

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