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#28338 - 08/17/03 12:40 AM Electrical Dependence?.
Trumpy Offline


Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8532
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Now,I'm not looking to "cash in" on the recent Power Faults in the US.
But, even though the US is in the midst of a HOT summer.
Could this be a call to address, as to how dependant we have ALL become on Electricity?.
Parents could not keep cool, children would have no entertainment, the Hot Water would not be hot.
Now, as an Electrician, I am not looking to cut my own throat, but, it seems to me that a few Installations could be a bit more efficient than what they are at the moment.
When HV/EHV equipment starts to trip,it would suggest that there is too much load on the system.
I read in the paper, that President Bush said that the US Grid System is antiquated and in need of an update, just HOW this is going to happen, your guess is as good as mine!.
But I must say, the world over, Electricity, is being used irresponsibly!.
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#28339 - 08/17/03 03:26 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
pauluk Offline

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
These sort of outages really do highlight just how dependent society has become on electricity.

Have we got any reasonable-sounding theories as to what happened yet?

#28340 - 08/17/03 04:32 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
walrus Offline

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 671
Loc: Bangor Me. USA
I don't know if there was too much load on the system(maybe on one line which caused the domino affect) but generation was only at 75% of capacity from what I've read. It wasn't that hot in the northeast to max the system. Something else happened and they are saying it happened in the Erie loop which circles lake Erie. Certainly an antiquated installation that runs a huge(used to be anyway) industrial area. It will be months before the whole story is known. How after deregulation the free market is going to invest in new lines is beyond me.

We certainly are addicted to electricity and its benefits. Mainers learned that in 98 when ice took down lines thruout the state and folks went without for days to weeks

#28341 - 08/17/03 04:32 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
frank Offline

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 361
Loc: windsor ontario canada
From CNN,three power lines in Ohio wen't down an hour before the cascade.An alarm to indicate the stability of the grid was not working so they thought it was stable and didn't disconnect however they are still not 1OO% sure.They also said data was coming in so fast durring the first few minutes that it was't logged in a timely fashion.I'm sure somewhere there's a fault history file that will tell the story.According to our equipment we had a spike at 4:06 pm and then zero line volts at 4:07 pm.The system was even not at capacity when it happened so load was not a factor.

[This message has been edited by frank (edited 08-17-2003).]

#28342 - 08/17/03 05:48 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
ThinkGood Offline

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Apparently, something happened at Niagara Falls. As it is on the border, the Americans blamed the Canadians, and the Canadians blamed the Americans. Since it was a tie, they both decided to blame Detroit, Michigan.

New Jersey was absent from the debate, because everybody was stuck, trying to get home from work in New York.

Detroit took offense at the finger-pointing and decided that something had to be done to deflect the blame.

Thus, everything pointed to a problem in Ohio.

Upon further investigation, it was determined that there was a new employee who forgot that the "SAVE ENERGY" notice refers to the right hand switch only:

Officials at the power plant are working to prevent such a problem from occurring in the future.

#28343 - 08/17/03 06:04 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
Winchester EE Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 9
Loc: St. Louis
I think we have become too dependent on businesses in general. We don't seem to have any backup systems for our daily necessities like food, fuel, clean drinking water, or power. I wouldn't think we need to go extremes and create backup luxuries but at least some local aid.

I think the New York subway system should have backup generators just for the purpose of evacuating people from the city.

But, like everything else, who pays for all the backup systems?

Off the main subject but related.
The timing was convenient for George W., but I'm sure it's just coincidence.
Please buy American made Winchester ammunition! Business is slowly going overseas!

#28344 - 08/17/03 08:09 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
Bjarney Offline

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2561
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
ThinkGood — Your switch labels remind me of a vaguely related announcement: “Due to the unforeseen economic downturn, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off.”

[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 08-17-2003).]

#28345 - 08/17/03 10:04 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
ElectricAL Offline

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 615
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
Al Hildenbrand

#28346 - 08/17/03 10:50 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
Plugman Offline

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 15
Loc: England
From the various figures I've seen bandied about on the rise in U.S. electricity usage over the last 10 years ~ up 30% to 35%, but capacity only going up 15%, that says one thing to me ~ chronic under investment.

Sadly, the only thing that the billions of dollars needed, are likely to be spent on, will be litigation, and not infrastructure.

The U.S. has got to decide whether the lawyers benefit, or the consumers and the grid network benefit!

[This message has been edited by Plugman (edited 08-17-2003).]

#28347 - 08/17/03 11:10 AM Re: Electrical Dependence?.
sparky Offline

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
a srceam ThinkGood!

oh and, to all our foriegn correspondents here, be glad you've no catch of buried electrical resources

.... off to crank up the AC then!


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