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#28274 - 08/15/03 10:42 AM Unbelievable
rowdyrudy Offline
Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 169
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
This is what happens in areas with no inspection and “I want it as cheap as possible” attitude.
I took a friend to his Dr. who had moved into a new building (<1 Y.O.). While waiting, I looked around in an unoccupied suite.
Ceiling cavity used as air return plenum as RA grills were in dropped ceiling. Looking up through RA grill saw that romex was connecting lay-in fluorescents. Easy to see as romex was lying on the RA grill.
No plates were yet installed so I could see that sws & recpts were romexed.
Outside, SE was EMT w/set screw connectors.
A/C units outside had no disconnecting means.
I gave up and left the building and waited in the car.
The industry needs a universal rewriting of the NEC with clear concise language with no vagueness, acceptance by all jurisdictions without modifications, and no ambiguities in interpretation of any chapter, paragraph, sentence, or word. All exceptions need to be deleted. Why have a rule if there are exceptions?
I’m PO’d so I’ll step off the soap box for now.
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#28275 - 08/15/03 01:59 PM Re: Unbelievable
pauluk Offline
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
Well, we have part of that here in Britain, in that the same "code" without modifications is used right across the country (albeit a country smaller than some American states).

We still have a certain vagueness of wording in parts, and sections open to argument, though.
#28276 - 08/15/03 02:13 PM Re: Unbelievable
targetshootr Offline
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 55
Loc: nc
whenever i rant about enforcement differences between inspectors and between jurisdictions, my standard joke is, "there should be some kind of national electrical code".
#28277 - 08/16/03 09:04 AM Re: Unbelievable
Jim M Offline
Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 457
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
My issue is when I see blatant violations and an inspection sticker on the job.

I just looked a a friends house that I didn't wire. Neutrals and grounds terminated together in the same hole, 2 wires from the footing ground in one lug. I told him to have the electrician fix these. He asked about the items and were told everything was OK. This job was also inspected.

I don't feel I should have to compete against such workmanship. Until the inspectors either learn the Code or start enforcing it our industry will suffer.
#28278 - 08/17/03 08:48 AM Re: Unbelievable
sparky Offline
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
the NEC apparently was never designed to be a 'user friendly' document, somewhat a self defeating feature, and not condusive of it's premis of safety.

it also creates a double standard ,perpetuating arbitrary benchmarks alongside grey 'interpetational' areas within the same binder.

the former dictating that all common sense be abandoned, the latter that it be subscribed to.

(edited for the sake of clarity~ !)

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-17-2003).]
#28279 - 08/17/03 10:08 AM Re: Unbelievable
Electric Eagle Offline
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 914
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I'm all for the NEC being enforced everywhere. In the area we cover, it is the only code with very few exceptions.

But I think you should have common sense exceptions to the code, not just do it this way because the book says so.
#28280 - 08/17/03 11:15 AM Re: Unbelievable
targetshootr Offline
Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 55
Loc: nc
i agree with sparkys post. i think.

when i first entered the trade, i was dumbfounded by the degree of difficulty of understanding the nec. so i use it only after consulting manufacturers specs and the job inspector.

i have learned that what the nec says matters little compared to what a particular inspector wants. he will quote the code of course and will also give a different answer than another inspector in the same jurisdicton.

example; we wired identical heat pumps on 2 identical mobile homes 4 spaces apart. ran pvc conduit just above the skirt. one passes, the other fails because 'do not run conduit where exposed to physical damage'. now i have to call the inspector and, knowing him as i do, another call to the chief inspector.

i could wirte a book about jobs like this.

(i could also write a book, but i may not spell it correctly)

[This message has been edited by targetshootr (edited 08-17-2003).]
#28281 - 08/18/03 06:39 PM Re: Unbelievable
sparky Offline
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
a book targetshootr !

well, let's consider the NEC as the good book then....humour me ...

we've ten commandments with 10 times the exceptions

we've appostles preaching it at every level of the trades hiearchy lacking only the Tammy Fay Baker paint job....

we've CMP's that are as complacent to corporate Judas's as the last supper

we've more 'how to understand NEC' literature than all the scribes you could pack in an ancient temple

we've a flock with the blindest of faith....

heck, we've even got our very own televangelists (Holt tapes).............

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-18-2003).]

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