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#2824 - 07/26/01 08:35 AM Grounding to water pipes
glenn35 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 48
I would like to know if it is actual code or if only certain areas require grounding plumbing and gas lines within the house.

And if so , why?

My cousin is building a house where there are no inspectors nor permits required.

His water and gas line feeds are plastic/PVC. Once they inter the house the water line is copper and (not sure about gas line). Is he required to bond to these metallic lines? It seems kinda dangerous to me, being that if the main neutral ever gave up. It's load has to go somewhere doesn't it? What if your taking a shower and it decides to use you as its path? Singing in the shower is one thing, but dancing is not preferred. Comments please.

Thanks

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#2825 - 07/26/01 08:59 AM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
glenn35

The copper waterline would still have to be bonded. (and 2 Gr rods - check local requirements) You have to think of it as putting all your metal stuff at the same potential which means that there would be no voltage there. If a live wire touched a pipe and it was not bonded it could remain live and breaker would not trip that would be bad for you standing outside in a puddle touching the water spigot.

The gas line may have different requirements, you better check on that. Maybe someone else can add more info here?

Bill

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#2826 - 07/26/01 09:12 AM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
See 250-104(b)regarding bonding gas lines.
Then see 250-104(c).

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#2827 - 07/26/01 09:33 AM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Redsy,

Thanks for pointing that out. Any idea whty there is a little x next to (b)?

I thought that gas was to be bonded, but I came across something in our Local Utility rules just today that said the following:
 Quote:

Gas service pipes shall not be used as a Grounding Electrode. Wires intended to be used for bonding shall not be placed in contact with any Gas Pipe.


What do you think they mean?
I should ask them about this.

Bill

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#2828 - 07/26/01 10:11 AM Re: Grounding to water pipes
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Bill,
The superscript "x" means that this rule is taken from another NFPA code. In this case it is from NFPA 50, The Fuel Gas Code.
Don(resqcapt19)
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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#2829 - 07/26/01 10:27 AM Re: Grounding to water pipes
glenn35 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 48
 Quote:
Originally posted by Redsy:
See 250-104(b)regarding bonding gas lines.
Then see 250-104(c).


I do not have a code manual. I am a lineman not an electrician.

As far as I know only one grnd rod is required here in Houston. At least that is all I have ever seen. Even within the City limits of Hou. where permits and inspectors are required.

I will check into the gas line further but will advise him that the cu. water line must be bonded.

thanks

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#2830 - 07/26/01 12:29 PM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Glenn35,

Normal fare here is Connect to underground (metallic) waterpipe and 1 Ground Rod. If waterpipe cannot be used because it it plastic outside then 2 rods 6 feet apart and a bond to the interior metal waterpipe.

I'm still confused about the Gas pipe

Bill

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#2831 - 07/26/01 02:06 PM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Bill,
The gas line bonding is part of an overall bonding philosophy as you described above. The FPN even suggests bonding ductwork. I actually called PECO one day to inquire about this and was told that they actually look for it to be done. Also, article 250-52(a) prohibits metal underground gas lines from being used as the grounding electrode. My brain is too tired to imagine the difference, as far as ramifications, between bonding to it and using it as an electrode. Maybe because complete isolation can't be assured, bonding is in order to minimize potential.

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#2832 - 07/26/01 02:18 PM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Anonymous
Unregistered


>My brain is too tired to imagine the difference
Simply put, it is bonded, but it cannot be counted as a required electrode.

I feel the same way about waterlines.

Rationale: May be replaced with plastic or disconnected in the future. The plumber shouldn't have to call an electrician to come install electrodes, and I bet he won't. So in go the dedicated ground rods today.

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#2833 - 07/26/01 02:22 PM Re: Grounding to water pipes
Anonymous
Unregistered


>I would like to know if it is actual code or if only certain areas require grounding plumbing and gas lines within the house.
I say it is code. Bonding is a safety issue.

>Is he required to bond to these metallic lines?
I say yes.

>It seems kinda dangerous to me, being that if the main neutral ever gave up.
No, there is decreased danger when bonded compared to the alternative.

>It's load has to go somewhere doesn't it? What if your taking a shower and it decides to use you as its path?
That is not possible if everything metallic is properly bonded.

You are worried about something that can't happen. And you are trying to avoid something that can't happen by creating the potential for real dangers.

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