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#28207 - 08/12/03 06:49 PM Grounding
bfdpoc221 Offline
Registered: 11/28/02
Posts: 11
Loc: Bucyrus Ohio USA
I need some help. I do mostly heavy industrial work so my resi knowledge is a little weak.A guy from the shop got into an argument about grounding the water pipe to the panel of a small building he was remodeling. The inspector had required it to be connected yet the water dept refused to connect his water service until this was removed. Then a contractor he was working with, who had moved here from Calif. stated that grounding the water pipe was illegal there! Can anyone here help me clear this up? I hate these conversations that always seem to come up when a Jack Of All Trades, Master of None starts running down the codes and rules we all have to follow. It makes it tough to defend why we do what we do!
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#28208 - 08/12/03 07:02 PM Re: Grounding
Electric Eagle Offline
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 914
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
In Georgia we have to bond the cold water to the grounding system and bond the hot and cold pipes together.
#28209 - 08/12/03 07:40 PM Re: Grounding
amp-man Offline
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 141
Loc: Sacto, California US of A
In my neck of the woods, in new construction a Ufer electrode is required (20 feet of rebar or #4 copper on the footing). And you must bond to the interior metal water piping.

For remodels, etc w/no new concrete footing, it's two 8 foot ground rods, at least 6 feet apart and at least two feet away from the foundation.

I think that the ex-Calif contractor is mistaken, unless it's some weird part of a local code. The California Electrical Code is about 98 persent straight NEC (the current Calif Elec Code is 2001 and based on the 1999 NEC). The 2001 CEC requirements for grounding are the same as the 1999 NEC--use a Ufer, or if not avail, use a metallic water pipe in contact w/the earth for at least 20 feet, with ground rods, or if water pipe not avail, just the ground rods (and bond the interior metallic water pipe).

#28210 - 08/12/03 07:41 PM Re: Grounding
amp-man Offline
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 141
Loc: Sacto, California US of A
That's IN the footing, I need a new keyboard!

#28211 - 08/12/03 08:34 PM Re: Grounding
stamcon Offline
Registered: 03/24/01
Posts: 329
Loc: So San Francisco CA
If at least 10' of metallic water pipe is in contact with the earth, it shall be bonded together with other available electrodes to form the Grounding Electrode System. California follows the NEC on this matter. This is for commercial or residential installations.

[This message has been edited by stamcon (edited 08-12-2003).]
#28212 - 08/12/03 09:36 PM Re: Grounding
ThinkGood Offline
Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1081
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Would NEC 250.104 apply?

250.104 Bonding of Piping Systems and Exposed Structural Steel.

(A) Metal Water Piping. The metal water piping system shall be bonded as required in (1), (2), (3), or (4) of this section....

(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded...

(2) Buildings of Multiple Occupancy...

(3) Multiple Buildings or Structures Supplied from a Common Service...

(4) Separately Derived Systems...

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 08-13-2003).]
#28213 - 08/13/03 04:02 PM Re: Grounding
pauluk Offline
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
Didn't we have a thread a few months back over a similar situation regarding gas pipes, where a local utility wanted the bonding removed?

For what it's worth, the requirement to bond metallic pipes within the house is pretty much a worldwide thing. British "code" requires all internal water and gas piping to be bonded.

Maybe the California guy is getting confused with bonding the pipes and using a water line as the sole grounding electrode.

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