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#22125 - 02/18/03 10:29 PM Why? Is this happening in your work place?

I've noticed a lot of rushing, but no training in the residential field. It's, "lets get it done, the heck with why and how it's done!" We have a new apprentice who is getting "NO" training at all, yet he's getting a lot of abuse. How the heck can apprentice learn anything, if they are never aloud to ask questions--because the j-man are so busy trying to get work done fast!???
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#22126 - 02/19/03 12:02 AM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
Wirenuttt Offline
Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
Residential is a hard part of the field to sit back and explain things. It's a very competitive market. You have to rush to make any money on it. Industrial can be fast pace too but not like residential where it's wire and run to the next one. I learned most of my residential the hard way by just following, reading, and asking people not necessarily at work. It;s nice to have someone guide you through into a career but it's not anyone elses responsibilty but yourself to improve and learn.
#22127 - 02/19/03 02:37 AM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 2749
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Very Sad!! Those apprentices will someday fill the shoes of the masters and journeymen! Scary thought for sure!!

It's terrible! I'll bet that the shop also hires cheap labor who work from the back of a van near the border, and for less money.

Wirenuttt, did you learn how to become an electrician from one, or from a family member?
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
#22128 - 02/19/03 03:29 AM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
sparky Offline
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
(If i may be so forward here)
Wirenuttt has worked for every no good, ignorant, self involved fool this trade has to offer.

That said, It was my good fortune to start as his apprentice, because no one since really gave a crap.

The problem with apprenticeship is the true maening of the word is not what it was 100 years ago. It simply means a 4-5 year hazing today....
#22129 - 02/19/03 05:27 AM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
Electricmanscott Offline
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1457
Loc: Holden, MA USA
This applies to any job out there. You will find your typical a**holes. You will also find people who are good people and not neccessarily good teachers. If it were me I would find a new job where I could work for someone who gives a crap about quality work and respects the help. As an apprentice I worked for a contractor that was well established, had a good reputation, and the j men were all at least five to ten year employees. These are gennerally good signs to look for. Staying with the jerks just makes life miserable and will certainly hurt the apprentice in the long run.
#22130 - 02/19/03 12:28 PM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
SJT Offline
Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 241
I bounced around alot from shop to shop. It's unfortunate that a helpper gets no respect. What we need is more concern for quality of the job. This means do it to Code, and just as important, make it look neat. I guess each one of us went through the get it done fast syndrome, until we worked with a mechanic that cared how the job looks. I guess it depends how much pride we take in our work also. I feel that a neat job is sort of like a signature of the sparkys work, because you never know who will follow you up, and see your work. I get great satisfaction in seeing a job I had done a year later and checking it out.
#22131 - 02/19/03 01:05 PM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
Roger Offline
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1716
Loc: N.C.
I have noticed looking back over my career that the electricians who were not willing to teach and were the most abussive, were the least tallented and least knowledged.

I think the secure electrician has a lot of pride in saying, I trained that guy you are so impressed with.

SJT, I worked for a company once, who's policy was that you had to sign and date the interior of the panel. This would identify the wirer of the job forever. This company overall had very nice completed jobs.


[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 02-19-2003).]
#22132 - 02/19/03 03:14 PM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?
HotLine1 Offline

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6778
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
My phlosophy for apprentices/helpers or "newbies" is that they should ask questions.
If they don't know how to do something right and safe, they have to ask!
There is no such thing as a "dumb/stupid" question, except the one that isn't asked!

Our company policy is also to sign and date our panels, switchboards, etc., and we also sign/initial the "red line" prints (as builts) so everyone knows who did what.

Yes, you can learn by watching, reading, and taking classes, but field work, and field questions are necessary.

The apprentices/helpers will be the journeymen/electricians of tommorrow!
#22133 - 02/19/03 06:20 PM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?

Great responses! I couldn't agree more! Heck, we need more people in the field-such as yourselves-that express the true meaning of team work. In addition, self pride (in ones work), and willingness to help when one needs it!
#22134 - 02/19/03 07:53 PM Re: Why? Is this happening in your work place?

Do what I did. Took code classes. Went to home centers and spent hours examining every bit of electrical stuff. Read every book I could find (afford).Sent away for parts catalogs and studied them at night instead of watching TV. Read all the forums. Then when you are finished and you think you know it all go to work and keep asking questions. Only now you can go home and research the answers you get before stashing it away in your head.
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