The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
1 registered (sparkyinak), 237 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#215902 - 08/13/15 11:01 AM Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip
EleazarM Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/13/15
Posts: 2
Loc: New Mexico USA
I have a question pertaining to the use of flexible cords in an industrial environment. There is an industrial dry pump that is permanently anchored to the floor that is powered by a flexible cord connected to a disconnect located near the equipment. looking at the power connector on the back of the dry pump, it doesnt look like it can accept flexible conduit to the connector.

So my question is. I know the NEC states that any equipment that is permanently installed should have permanent wiring (i.e. flex conduit or hard conduit), but what about equipment that only accepts flexible cords and is permanently anchored to the floor?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
Eleazar Martinez

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#215903 - 08/13/15 02:01 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
HotLine1 Online   content

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
NEC Article 400.7 and 400.8 are the permitted and NOT permitted uses for flexible cords.

If the pump was 'factory installed' with flex cord, then IMHO the install you describe is compliant.
_________________________
John

Top
#215946 - 08/17/15 08:08 AM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: HotLine1]
EleazarM Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/13/15
Posts: 2
Loc: New Mexico USA
would the installation still be compliant if manufacture states the power connection on the back of the unit is meant for flex cord?

Im sure if the manufacture wanted they could supply the unit with a power connector that was compatible with hard wiring the unit. would it be better to get a hold of the manufacture and have them supply a different power cord or leave as the original installation?

Thanks for the reply

Top
#215953 - 08/17/15 06:39 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
HotLine1 Online   content

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
IMHO, the installation instructions provided by the mfg. are to be followed, as they should be compliant to the NEC, along with the UL, or other listing agency requirements.

IF the pump came from the mfg. with a 'cord connector' and the instructions specify 'cord', then that would be a compliant install, again IF the pump is being used & installed as per mfg.

Usually, equipment intended to be field 'hard wired' does not come with any connector at the wiring compartment, just provisions (knockouts/hubs) for field connection.
_________________________
John

Top
#215954 - 08/17/15 07:06 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think it really gets back to the listing. If they had a corded model evaluated, you can put an equivalent U/L listed cord set on it.
You see this with things like dishwashers and disposals. You can order the identical model hard wired or corded and the instructions will address both.
When my wife was building houses, all of these things were corded and dropped right before the house closed so they wouldn't walk away.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#215955 - 08/17/15 10:27 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Speaking as someone with direct access to the inner workings of the pump standard ... now, consider the following comments to be absolute Gospel from the ultimate authority- if presented in a casual manner:

The pump standard has all manner of provisions regarding pumps and the use of cords with them. There has been some 'loosening' of the rules in the past few years as various matters have been clarified.

Simply put: Lighten up, people! Just about any pump can be fitted with any cord, of any (reasonable) length, and not violate the listing & labeling. Even rigging a cord to a pump that is "usually" hard-wired does NOT constitute a violation of the listing.

The connection boxes are evaluated using the biggest connectors that will fit. Various pump makers have provided plenty of substantiation for the use of cords in various situations. There's a whole industry (IE: Meltric) built on the idea of using cords.

True, the details CAN matter. For example, it is imagined that a pump in a wash-down situation would be connected using wet-location fittings. It's the responsibility of the AHJ, and not the testing lab, to judge whether a particular fitting and cord are acceptable.

Yes, there has been a lot of parsing with regards to dishwashers and disposals. Those are different appliances, and are evaluated under a different standard than the one for electrically powered water pumps. Different standards, different committees, different rules. (Witness the recent increase in the allowed length of cord on a dishwasher!).

The OP asked about pumps in an industrial environment. This introduces several "special exemptions" into the question. These include vibration isolation, ease of maintenance, and a 'supervised' maintenance program with 'qualified' people.

Now... that said ... there are a heck of a lot of pumps that are not 'listed' by anyone. The pump industry has a century-long history of producing all manner of top-quality, perfectly safe pumps without the blessings of any testing lab. You can't violate the listing of something that's not listed!

Top
#215956 - 08/17/15 11:56 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The loopholes for any of these is in 400.7

Quote:
(6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange
(7) Prevention of the transmission of noise or vibration
(8) Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection


You can usually find enough wiggle room in one of these to connect just about anything with a cord.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#215957 - 08/18/15 07:59 PM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
HotLine1 Online   content

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
#6 & #7 work some times. #8 leaves a lot of debatable 'ifs'.

Good judgment by both the contractors and inspectors should prevail.

The OPs comment about not enough space for a flex connector is puzzling to me. A picwould help.
_________________________
John

Top
#215960 - 08/19/15 09:02 AM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The main "if" is if the AHJ will buy it. wink

I never had a problem with cords if the argument was compelling and I did not see a hazard.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#215961 - 08/19/15 09:13 AM Re: Flexible Cords used on permanently installed equip [Re: EleazarM]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
On a pump, one thing that might guide me decision was if the plumbing side was installed in a way that "facilitate(d) frequent interchange" like a hose coupling or unions. If they are cutting pipes, they can disconnect some wiring.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals