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#214892 - 02/04/15 05:40 PM Code Interpretation.
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
This came in my mailbox today. I don't do much work in this city and they must of sent it to all their registered electrical contractors.

The first picture is a no brainer.

The 2nd picture now....Idk. I guess technically it's not meeting requirements, but its how the box is designed. This is gonna be a bummer for the guy who bangs up a house full of plastic nail-ons.

Discuss?

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#214893 - 02/04/15 07:09 PM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
We had this discussion before about the back of a plastic box that ends up within 1.25" of the back wall. The only way I see them justifying this is that the cable entries are in the back of the box so the cable is <1.25" from the edge of the framing.
It would be an interesting question if someone went through a KO in the middle of the box, not the rear edge. You could still shoot a screw into the box but I am not sure there is any language to stop the installation.
Another work around might be to nail up a scrap of 2x lumber, then screw the box to that. A screw shot through the drywall would still hit the box but it would have to be >1.5" off target.

A rocker is usually better than that but a home owner, hanging a picture or something, not so much.
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#214894 - 02/04/15 07:22 PM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I just looked up that ICC code section and it is lifted from 110.27(B).
Quote:
(B) Prevent Physical Damage. In locations where electrical equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage, enclosures or guards shall be so arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage.


I am not sure where they get "1.25" tho
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#214895 - 02/04/15 08:36 PM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
Greg do you have a link to the previous discussion?
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#214896 - 02/04/15 11:53 PM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
gfretwell Offline

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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
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#214898 - 02/05/15 07:48 AM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
First off, I object to the editing of the picture. The town, as a public authority, has no expectation of privacy - and matters of law are public concerns.

If Mayor Dweezil of Smalltown wants to be a jerk, he should be exposed to as much public scrutiny as possible.

This exposure is one of the things that inhibits public officials from getting too big for their britches.

Likewise, our "national codes" are neither national nor codes. The locality is the authority, and is free to adopt whatever rules they like.

As I better learn the NEC, I continue to be amazed at what is allowed. There are loads of things that you would assume are banned, things that are actually either not addressed, or are actually allowed. (Example? Splicing in panels).

Alas, we are often in competition with 'code minimum' types, who push the limits so often that folks sometimes even assume that a 'better' way is forbidden. (Example? Identifying circuits anywhere except the factory-provided card on the panel door).

The requiring of disconnects at the meter is so common as to be assumed a requirement - yet, the NEC continues to have language that allows extensive runs of un-fused service conductors within a building.

Whether Romex is heaven-sent, or the devil's design, is a debate still not settled in the NEC. Can you spell A F C I?

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#214899 - 02/05/15 07:51 AM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Teslas comments within the above linked thread about the screw into the back of a panel is classic.

The 'Codes' cannot make everything idiot proof.

As to the plastic box issue, IMHO stretching the words of the code to suit an opinion.

Thousands of plastic boxes in many new resi jobs, and I am not aware of any issues.
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#214900 - 02/05/15 10:44 AM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
The link posted and the thread created by George is for the same city I am posting about. City of Berkley, MI.


Edited by Trick440 (02/05/15 10:45 AM)
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#214901 - 02/05/15 11:13 AM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
This is one of the parts I hate about electrical. No matter how long you have been doing it or how much you know you can never guarantee to be right.

Someone is always going behind you with their interpretation, or a certain city code, etc. and if they don't like it, you have to correct it, even if they are wrong.

I called the city on this to get info on who to contact if I disagreed, she told me to write the state cause its code. After telling her, its not the state, its only her city, she gave me the city planners email. I probably won't write anything, this has clearly been discussed between the 2 inspectors and the decision made. No email will make a difference.
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#214902 - 02/05/15 12:17 PM Re: Code Interpretation. [Re: Trick440]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Trick:
Just a side note..
Many years back, I installed a gray, old work, deep, plastic box in a bathroom for a GFI.

My GC called, said I failed rough inspection. I went to the site, found a red sticker in the bath 'box not bonded'!

I called the town, spoke to the inspector, told him 'it's plastic'! He said...it's not blue, it's metal, bond it!!

After some thought, I drilled and tapped the back of the box and installed a green screw & bond. IMHO, it was not worth delaying the job to prove a point.
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