The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Correct rotation, wrong sequence
by Potseal
Yesterday at 03:14 PM
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
12/09/16 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 11
HotLine1 10
Potseal 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 7
Who's Online
1 registered (geoff in UK), 205 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#214010 - 09/22/14 11:24 PM Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
When installing fixtures in clothes closets I have always considered the horizontal distance from the face of the fixture to the shelf when determining the clearance from the "nearest point" of storage space. Since the intent is to keep hot fixture parts from contacting or falling on storage items it seems that clothes hanging from a pole would infringe on the intent of the code but they most likely, measured diagonally would meet the clearance requirements. Are the parts supposed to be cool enough by the time they reach the clothes? What exactly is the definition of storage space since a clothes closet could be jam-packed?

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#214011 - 09/23/14 06:52 AM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
wewire2:

From 2014 NEC...
410.2 Definition.
Closet Storage Space. The volume bounded by the sides
and back closet walls and planes extending from the closet
floor vertically to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) or to the highest
clothes-hanging rod and parallel to the walls at a horizontal
distance of 600 mm (24 in.) from the sides and back of the
closet walls, respectively, and continuing vertically to the
closet ceiling parallel to the walls at a horizontal distance of
300 mm (12 in.) or the width of the shelf, whichever is
greater; for a closet that permits access to both sides of a
hanging rod, this space includes the volume below the
highest rod extending 300 mm (12 in.) on either side of the
rod on a plane horizontal to the floor extending the entire
length of the rod. See Figure 410.2.
410.

My opinion is that the fixture is to be far enough away from any combustible materials that could be ignited by the heat generated from the fixture. The 'hot' parts that you refer to are supposed to be contained by the fixture, as bare bulbs are not allowed.

And yes, I have seen some really 'packed' closets, and some really scary means of illumination.
_________________________
John

Top
#214012 - 09/23/14 08:01 AM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Observed abuses aside .... and anything can be abused .... the code does provide for specialty luminaires to be installed closer to stored materials than you might expect from the excerpt posted above.

For example, there exist illuminated closet rods that, by their design, can't help but place the cloths much closer to the light than 12".

I expect hat with the expanding use of CFL and LED light sources, as well as the legislative assault on the old-fashioned incandescent light bulb, that closet lighting will soon stop being such a 'hot' topic.

Now, does putting an enclosed bulb, or a CFL bulb, into an ordinary fixture make that fixture either enclosed, or fluorescent, under the NEC? Good question.

Early on, the IAEI took the position that no, it does not. In a like manner, California took the position that such did not make the fixture energy efficient either. Both justified their positions in that you "might" later put an incandescent bulb in the fixture.

I do not see anything in the NEC, or the various energy codes, that allows for such an interpretation. Not only is such an approach an affront to our concepts of right and wrong (do we ban cars because they MIGHT be used to commit crimes?), but Article 90 of the NEC makes it pretty clear that what 'might' happen in the future is beyond the scope of the code.

Top
#214014 - 09/23/14 11:14 AM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
As Reno said, there are approved, listed alternative fixtures other than incandescent.

I've seen nice LED fixtures, about 6" round, surface mount that do a good job of illumination. Surface mount (over the door) fluorescents work also.
_________________________
John

Top
#214015 - 09/23/14 12:02 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: HotLine1]
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
Thanks for the help with the code reference. Forgot that was there and was looking in article 100. Brushing up on residential has actually been fun.

Top
#214017 - 09/23/14 06:24 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Remember, we areall students of the NEC....
_________________________
John

Top
#214025 - 09/23/14 10:46 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The actual clothes closet rules are 410.16

I had one of the LED proposals that were rolled up into that code change (accepted in principle) 410.16(C)(5)

Quote:
410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
(A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp
(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
(3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area
(B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
(C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:
(1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
(2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
(3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling
(4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling
(5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#214059 - 09/27/14 12:27 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
Looks like the trouble is finding LED fixtures identified for use in the storage space. Wonder how much it would cost the manufacturer to get this extra rating.

Top
#214061 - 09/27/14 12:44 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think this will start showing up more as the LED luminaires get more popular. If you are paying for the listing anyway, adding the endorsement for storage space is just a small incremental cost in the grand scheme of things. As the NRTLs get comfortable with the idea this should be a fairly simple test beyond what they do for any product and that is pretty extensive.
They blow things up in every conceivable way to see how they fail but even with that, I am amazed at some things that pass.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#214072 - 09/28/14 07:01 PM Re: Clothes Closet Fixture Clearance [Re: wewire2]
wewire2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 246
Loc: California
I'm amazed at what passes also. For instance, some of the weatherproof boxes and LB's I've used lately seem like they were designed to strip the insulation off the wire when it's installed. Ground screws strip out. Total junk.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals