The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

   
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#213184 - 03/27/14 10:09 PM 70E quandry
TheGreatSparkalini Offline
New Member
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Sanford, Maine USA
I need to know if my training is lacking or if a concern from a manager has no merit. The manager is insisting that 30 cal flash gear is needed to reset a tripped 3000A 480 VAC main breaker. The breaker and all the gear around it is fully enclosed. The Approach is 26.5 ft and limited is 3.6 feet. Am I wrong to assume that these barriers only apply with the covers open. I definitely will need to review 70E to set myself or the manager straight. I appreciate his zeal to keep us safe but this seems extreme. What do you all think?
Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
#213187 - 03/28/14 11:01 AM Re: 70E quandry [Re: TheGreatSparkalini]
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4229
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
If the covers are all on, no PPE is required, much less a 30 cal suit.

Ask the manager if he puts on flash gear to reset one of his breakers at home

rolleyes
Top
#213188 - 03/28/14 11:42 AM Re: 70E quandry [Re: TheGreatSparkalini]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Is there any concerns over what tripped the 3000 amp main?

Hopefully it was the GF
_________________________
John
Top
#213192 - 03/28/14 02:10 PM Re: 70E quandry [Re: TheGreatSparkalini]
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
Originally Posted By TheGreatSparkalini
Am I wrong to assume that these barriers only apply with the covers open.


Appropriate PPE is always required, regardless of covers being present or absent.

closed covers mitigate any possible shock incident, and they probably do help in the prevention of an AF occurrence, but the do nothing to lower the amount of incident energy.

While I might judge the 'normal operation' of a 3000A breaker between open and closed as having a low risk of an AF occurring, there is no way I would 'reset' a tripped breaker without PPE based on the available incident energy.
Top
#213193 - 03/28/14 02:13 PM Re: 70E quandry [Re: electure]
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
Originally Posted By electure
If the covers are all on, no PPE is required, much less a 30 cal suit.


The PPE requirements need to be part of the company's Electrical Safe Work Practice program.
Top
#213195 - 03/28/14 02:22 PM Re: 70E quandry [Re: JBD]
LarryC Offline
Member
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 782
Loc: Winchester, NH, US
Quote:
The PPE requirements need to be part of the company's Electrical Safe Work Practice program.


So the outside consultant with a vested interest in separating you from your money, will specify the most conservative interpretation of the 70E rules in order to validate their cost to the company. Meanwhile you will need PPE to plug in a vacuum cleaner in the office spaces.
Top
#213196 - 03/28/14 04:48 PM Re: 70E quandry [Re: TheGreatSparkalini]
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4229
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Bob,
Refer the manager to Table 130.7(C)(15)(a) of 70E,
available @
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/opmanual/OP60.14B.pdf

It lists the Hazard/Risk Category Classifications.

Panelboards or Switchboards Rated >240 V and up to 600 V (with molded case or insulated case breakers)

CB or fused switch operation with covers on

Hazard Risk = 0
______________________________________________________

600 V Class Switchgear (with power circuit breakers or fused switches)

CB or fused switch operation with covers on

Hazard Risk = 0




Top
#213202 - 03/29/14 11:29 AM Re: 70E quandry [Re: LarryC]
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
Originally Posted By LarryC
So the outside consultant with a vested interest in separating you from your money, will specify the most conservative interpretation of the 70E rules in order to validate their cost to the company. Meanwhile you will need PPE to plug in a vacuum cleaner in the office spaces.


If the people doing your analysis are the same ones that are selling you your PPE, you probably have a point.

My point is; it is not a requirement of NFPA70E that you employ any more PPE than is necessary to perform the task.

The typical AF study says how bad things could be (the hazard), not how likely they are to occur(the risk).

70E clearly says that the risk must be analyzed as well as the danger. The is partly why their 'task tables' result in a Hazard Risk Category instead of simply cal/cm^2.
Top
#213203 - 03/29/14 11:33 AM Re: 70E quandry [Re: electure]
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
Originally Posted By electure
Bob,
Refer the manager to Table 130.7(C)(15)(a) of 70E....


And make sure that all of the conditions (fault current, opening times, and regular maintenance) are met.
Top
#213208 - 03/29/14 12:48 PM Re: 70E quandry [Re: TheGreatSparkalini]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
This is like most things "safety" related. If it is worth doing, it is worth over doing.

You only have to look ad lead paint and asbestos abatement this in action. Someone dug up some sewer pipe here in a road expansion project that *might* have had some asbestos in it and instead of some reasonable response, they shut down the project for months, hauled about 100 yards of dirt for "safe disposal" and treated the pipe like it was plutonium. Everyone involved was punished in some way and the contractor went bankrupt. An overpass took years and many extra millions to complete.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box

Recent Posts
Forum Styles
by Admin
Today at 02:22 PM
License exam
by TRUE POWER
Yesterday at 09:16 PM
Looking for older post
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 12:27 AM
Members: Non-Members: Did you know?
by Admin
01/22/17 02:34 PM
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM

Who's Online
1 registered (Admin), 102 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters
gfretwell 9066
Trumpy 8560
pauluk 7693
HotLine1 6833
sparky 5545
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals