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#211876 - 11/19/13 07:20 PM Re: HVAC
harold endean Offline
Member
Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
You are running a feed a 20 amp 240 volt feed to air air condition compressor outside. You decide to run a 12-3 RX wire and install a weatherproof GFI receptacle across the red and black wire of that 12- RX wire and use the black and red wire for the HVAC. The receptacle is wired in before the disconnect, so that you can De-energize the AC and still have the recpt. hot.

Does this meet code? Yes? No, if not, code sections please.



Edited by harold endean (11/19/13 07:21 PM)
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#211879 - 11/19/13 08:19 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
BigB Offline
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 727
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
I think you meant to say the GFCI is wired between the red and white, or the black and white, not the red and black.

Anyways this is an interesting qquestion and I am going to be watching this one.


Edited by BigB (11/19/13 08:22 PM)
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#211880 - 11/19/13 09:01 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
wire_twister Offline
Member
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 265
Loc: Georgia USA
I have contemplated doing this more than once, havent done it yet, too lazy to dig in the code for supporting articles. Like BigB said I will be watching this question.
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Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid
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#211883 - 11/19/13 11:47 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
It certainly sounds like an interesting idea but I am going to sharpen my pencil and start looking at that condenser label.
You might get away with it if you had a small mini split with a 10a or less FLA. (210.23(A)(2) and 440.34)
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#211887 - 11/20/13 11:49 AM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Time to follow Greg & look thru the book. My gut is it could fly, as I can't put an Article on it right now.

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#211895 - 11/20/13 05:33 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Sure! Why not? (Though there might be other issues if you put 240 volts across a 120v GFCI :D)

Ultimately, you're describing a sort of tap - though no additional overcurrent protection is needed, as you're within the ratings of the conductors all the way.

Or, are you? Any condenser that calls for a maximum 20 amp breaker is also going to allow the use of #14 wire. You're also going to need a disconnect downstream, in addition to the breaker in the panel
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#211896 - 11/20/13 05:37 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
JoeTestingEngr Offline
Member
Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 786
Loc: Chicago, Il.
If it's not compliant, it should be. That sounds like the perfect service receptacle setup for maintenance.
Joe
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#211899 - 11/20/13 11:04 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
NORCAL Offline
Member
Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 807
There is 210.63, but it prohibits the required receptacle being connected to the LOAD side of the disconnecting means, this is from the 2008 NEC.

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, airconditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft)
of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment.
The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the
load side of the equipment disconnecting means.
Exception: A receptacle outlet shall not be required at oneand
two-family dwellings for the service of evaporative
coolers.
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#211904 - 11/21/13 07:59 AM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
ghost307 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 897
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Technically it works, but if the AHJ asks if the 2-pole breaker is intended, and UL Listed, to protect a line-to-neutral load you may have a tough time answering.
About half of the time that I have seen this type of installation it has been passed, and gigged the other half.

Also 210.23(A)(2) prohibiting receptacles on a circuit feeding 'fixed in place' equipment would come into play.

Besides...if it were that easy why would they sell disconnect switches that have a GFCI already installed in them?
Go to www.geindustrial.com and search for DET-382 to see the GE product; several other manufacturers have the same thing.

IMHO I would suggest that you run this question by the AHJ to make sure that you won't have to tear anything out and do it over.
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#211905 - 11/21/13 12:20 PM Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Yes, 210.23 (A)(2) would work.

Thanks Ghost307
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