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#211638 - 11/05/13 08:15 AM Feeds from two different Utilitys??
Yoopersup Offline
Member
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
Large Industrial site. Owner buys power at 13.8 Volts.
Services coming in close to 900 amps at 13.8.
Another Utility feeds the other half of the site 25KV
Both services are brought down to 480 volts in all areas.
(Also 4160 but N/A ).
Question code wise?
Can two 480 volt feeders ((each from different utility's)) (480 v with ground ( Feeders) be brought to a Transfer Switch ( Power Must keep on Control panels in case of extended outage)[They are already UPS backed up]. Generator is not practical in this application.
(Lot more to it then I can say at this time).
Both Sources are Owner Feeders remember.
Code References>?????
Thank You.
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#211639 - 11/05/13 09:53 AM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
230.2(D) seems to apply

Quote:
(D) Different Characteristics. Additional services shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases, or for different uses, such as for different rate schedules.


I can't think of any reason why this can not be used with transfer equipment. It is similar to an SDS.
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Greg Fretwell
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#211640 - 11/05/13 11:43 AM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: gfretwell]
Yoopersup Offline
Member
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
I agree I feel its OK long as well marked in all locations.
I've stayed away from Article 230 (Services) cause I believe all the rules of Feeders apply (225-30).
[b]Thanks for your impute.
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#211643 - 11/05/13 07:28 PM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Services are very similar to feeders except there is not really any effective overcurrent protection.
They say a lot about "outside the building" and then wrote one of the most ambiguous lines in the NEC when they tell you where the disconnect must be when it gets into the building. wink
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Greg Fretwell
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#211648 - 11/06/13 06:40 PM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Yoop:

Yes,follow the feeder articles, and make sure it is all well marked.

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John
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#211652 - 11/06/13 10:59 PM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Probably the most important sign is the one at each disconnect that tells the firemen and other professionals that there are 2 services and the location of the second disconnect.

Quote:
230.2(E) Identification. Where a building or structure is supplied by more than one service, or any combination of branch circuits, feeders, and services, a permanent plaque or directory shall be installed at each service disconnect location denoting all other services, feeders, and branch circuits supplying that building or structure and the area served by each. See 225.37.

Handbook commentary
Section 230.2(E) states that where any combination of branch circuits, feeders, and services supplies power to a building or structure, a permanent plaque or directory must be installed at each service disconnect location to indicate where the other disconnects that feed the building are lo-cated, as illustrated in Exhibit 230.1. All the other services on or in the building or structure and the area served by each must be noted on the plaques or directories. The plaques or directories should be of sufficient durability to withstand the ambient environment. See the commentary following 225.37 for further information on identification of multiple supply sources to a building or structure.
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Greg Fretwell
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#211653 - 11/07/13 06:49 AM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
Did you read the exception to 225.37 (Exception 1)?

From 2011 NEC
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John
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#211656 - 11/07/13 09:36 AM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
They seem to want to ignore those types of exceptions here. I guess they don't think we have that many qualified people wink

It will usually be the fire marshal who wants the signs.
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Greg Fretwell
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#211657 - 11/07/13 12:20 PM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Curious IF Yoop would want to know that.
I picked it from '11, but I think it's been around for a while.

Agree on the need for the first responders to have it posted.

I still have generator jobs that fight over 702.8
Generac supplies a nice decal, but some have issues, as I think they don't look in the bag of instructions!
_________________________
John
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#211661 - 11/07/13 09:57 PM Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
When it comes to safety related issues, the fire marshal is far more stringent than you get from the bare NEC. He is usually a fireman and they look out for their guys.
I do question most of those exceptions where they talk about "only qualified people" and "documented switching procedures" myself.

I really want to see it.
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Greg Fretwell
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