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#211332 - 10/05/13 07:44 PM Ridiculous Codes or Products
MarkC10 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 43
Loc: CA, Inland Empire
My gripe on this topic today is .. AFCI Breakers, such a dumb product .. I know it's about safety and I'm pretty sure I install them correctly ..

I finally get these 2 Arc Fault Breakers to hold in the on position, whew hew the multi wire system passed the test.Although only until I unplugged everything on that circuit was I able to get this result .. I began to plug the cords in one by one, the AFCI breaker trips.. I'm thinkin .. ok possibly a bad load .. so I reset the breaker and continue plugging in other loads .. long of the short .. any arc at all whether it's from a light switch or simply plugging something in with a mild load, trips the breaker .. That's a product which needs to be fine tuned.

I only attempted to install these upon an inspector's request .. those breakers are too sensitive, the customer plugged in a brand new phone charger .. the breaker tripped .. AFCI are junk. concept is great .. but the product is ridiculous ..

So when I get the inspector to look at it next week I will put them back in .. unplug all the loads being fed from the breaker , turn them on .. let them set pretty for testing then get rid of them so the customer can use the plugs in there home ..

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#211337 - 10/06/13 09:41 AM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4225
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
2 regular single pole AFCI breakers won't work with a multiwire circuit.

GE & Siemens have recently introduced special single pole AFCI's for use with multiwire circuits.

http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/c...DET-719|generic

the GE's have a MOD3 designation.





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#211340 - 10/06/13 04:55 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
MarkC10 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 43
Loc: CA, Inland Empire
Yea Electure, I did do some research and found the same thing .. I upgraded a customers service to a Square D homeline .. nice product, I had to lengthen the branch wires by 18" using a nema 3 enclosure, it looks clean and allowed me to terminate the older branches which would of been 6 to 12" too short .. come to find the specific city I worked in calls for AFCI if any of the older wiring was modified what so ever ..

Had I known this was going to be the outcome I would of installed an upgraded panel to conform to the only 2 manufactures that make a double pole AFCI .. Square D does not make 2 pole AFCI breakers because they know better it seems..

What bugs me is with this AFCI code now stating pretty much all breakers need this technology .. why are the other breakers made, they're outdated, right ?.. for commercial those breakers can be used, but how about the residential industry.

I'm just screwed, It will all work out, but what a hassle.

Being that this is inspected, I can put a different manufacturers breaker in this panel ..
_________________________
Anyone claiming to know everything about Electrical, is wrong.

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#211345 - 10/07/13 06:54 AM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
togol Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 426
Loc: NW In. USA
AFCIs are not required anywhere in Indiana. There was a brief span during the '08 cycle, but they were deleted by the state fire marshall in '09.

TR devices are not a big deal around here either.
_________________________
Tom

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#211347 - 10/07/13 08:30 AM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 725
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Originally Posted By: MarkC10




What bugs me is with this AFCI code now stating pretty much all breakers need this technology .. why are the other breakers made, they're outdated, right ?..


There are still parts of a dwelling that do not require AFCI protection, the kitchen and garage for instance, and the bathroom plugs, outdoor plugs, and unfinished areas, laundry plugs, utility room etc.

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#211348 - 10/07/13 02:30 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4225
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Originally Posted By: MarkC10

Being that this is inspected, I can put a different manufacturers breaker in this panel ..


I seriously doubt that the SqD Homeline panel is listed for use with other than SqD breakers.

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#211349 - 10/07/13 06:45 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Oh no you didn't!

Not another classified breaker thread wink
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#211350 - 10/07/13 06:56 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5300
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Maybe Electure can dig up that picture he has, the duplex receptacle that is ALWAYS 'ground up.' Just in case the code panels need to write a new requirement .... laugh

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#211351 - 10/07/13 07:23 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: MarkC10]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Me thinks MarkC10 made a gramatical mistake.

'I can't put another mfg breaker in'.....
_________________________
John

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#211352 - 10/07/13 07:52 PM Re: Ridiculous Codes or Products [Re: renosteinke]
NickD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Amish Country, PA

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