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#211018 - 09/04/13 10:01 AM GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker??
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
I have a customer who has a house built in the 70's that has a 20 GFI breaker that feeds a lot of stuff from the house then a lot of lights down at the lake he lives next to
(Jecuzzi, path lights, boat house lights etc.). He's wanting me to add an outlet down near the lake and installing a GFI in it also. Any problems adding it on the same circuit as the breaker?? I think I've run into this before and had no problems, but can't remember. Thanks Steve..

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#211019 - 09/04/13 10:27 AM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
It's a PIA to troubleshoot but its not a code issue. I'd recommend to the the customer go with the breaker. Less neuscience tripping and it would save hime a few dollars
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#211020 - 09/04/13 11:55 AM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If there is already a GFCI breaker, you don't need another GFCI on that circuit.
I do have a few that are stacked like that but it is a cord mounted GFCI in an appliance plugged into a GFCI circuit.
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#211023 - 09/04/13 07:19 PM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
One PITA of a string of GFI devices (on load side) is hunting down the one that tripped.

Putting a regular WR duplex down by the lake, could be a life safety issue, being the OP said lights, path lights are on that circuit.

Personally, I would have the lights on a circuit, the jacuzzi on a circuit, and a circuit down by the lake. GFI protection as required.

BTW, the multiple GFI devices on the same circuit is one of the 'homeowner' specials up here
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#211035 - 09/07/13 11:09 AM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I am not sure why troubleshooting stacked GFCIs is harder. It should be easier. You have a better idea of which segment of wire is good or bad.
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#211036 - 09/07/13 03:15 PM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
geoff in UK Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 169
Loc: UK
Its all down to trip times and device sensitivity. In a fault condition its a race between the devices and you can't predict which will go first. Hence the fault area is clear if only the one nearest the load trips, but a trip up the line and it's anyone's guess. In my opinion only time delayed units should be upstream of any others.

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#211037 - 09/07/13 09:10 PM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
It is still safe to assume the fault is past the last one that trips tho.
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#211039 - 09/08/13 11:53 AM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
It's harder to trouble shoot per say because is is no the first thing that comes to your mind. I had once a GFCI breaker, GFCI recept and a second GFCI recept on the load side on the first recept. All is needed is one GFCI device and I place it in the most convient location in the circuit. If more then one is needed for conscience, no need to put one on the load side of another. If the customer don't know where they are all at then its gets time consuming meaning a big repair bill needlessly. Not good for a reputation.
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#211044 - 09/08/13 04:28 PM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: gfretwell]
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2331
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted By: gfretwell
It is still safe to assume the fault is past the last one that trips tho.

True, tripping a GFI from the line side is fairly hard, except for transients (e.g. lightning).

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#211046 - 09/08/13 05:42 PM Re: GFI outlet in conjunction with GFI breaker?? [Re: sparkync]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
As an inspector, it is a royal pain 'hunting' for a tripped GFI downstream of the one I was testing.
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