The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
breaker meltdown
by sparky
Yesterday at 07:30 PM
230 or 345 kV transmission lines?
by Vlado
09/24/16 09:33 AM
Electrical mast flashing product
by ThomasWinfrey
09/22/16 12:14 AM
What estimating software do you recommend?
by sparky
09/21/16 07:20 PM
"Dry Run" Inspection goes awry
by HotLine1
09/20/16 07:39 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
HotLine1 14
sparky 10
gfretwell 8
sparky66wv 8
Vlado 6
Who's Online
1 registered (Radar), 249 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#209056 - 03/04/13 07:51 PM 2012 NEC 2012(A)
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 725
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Article 210.12 (2012) Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection does not include bathrooms, kitchens or garages in the list of required circuits to be protected, but it does list “or similar areas”. Does this mean that the lighting circuits in the garage, bathroom and kitchen do not need to be AFCI protected? Does this also mean that any kitchen receptacle circuits that do not serve the countertops need not be AFCI protected, even if they are not GFCI protected (i.e. dishwasher, fridge, range hood microwave)?

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#209062 - 03/04/13 10:23 PM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
That is the way I read it. That multiwire under the sink for the dish washer and disposal is still OK.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#209071 - 03/05/13 09:51 PM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 725
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Thanks. We just adopted the 08 & 12 in one swoop, got some catching up to do.

Top
#209072 - 03/05/13 11:20 PM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I was at lunch with a Leviton rep who had one of the elusive AFCI devices a week or so ago and he says they believe the length restriction to the first device will be gone in 2014 and we will be able to drop a device in the first box to protect the circuit downstream
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#209080 - 03/06/13 06:44 AM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
What about lights in detached garage? As BigB said, would they have to be on a AFCI? As some of you know, that code section that states "AND SIMILAR AREAS" is not a very good way to write that code section. Plus AFCI's were originally to protect just the bedroom receptacles from those annoying extension cords.

Top
#209082 - 03/06/13 07:37 AM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Regarding a 'detached' garage...NO AFCI requirements. Receptacles are required to be GFI, and that's it.

Argue that if the garage is attached....the word 'garage' is not mentioned, nor would a lot of us think it is 'similsr' to the areas listed. Now, for some of us that think 'ahead', what if the garage is used for a 'play area' like with a ping-pong table??

Evenyually, IMHO, a house will soon be ALL AFCI &/or GFI.
_________________________
John

Top
#209083 - 03/06/13 07:38 AM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
Yes, the elusive AFCI device is around. I requested a 'sample' two weeks ago, but to date nothing.
_________________________
John

Top
#209143 - 03/10/13 09:21 AM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
John,

I agree that AFCI is not required in a garage and I also foresee AFCI and GFCI will be required for the whole house. I am still not "sold" on the idea that AFCI is a stable product. I haven't used any of them yet, but I still hear a lot of EC's complaining about them.

Top
#209145 - 03/10/13 09:59 AM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Still waiting for a reply on IF a sample of the 'device' is available. I'll look in the 'big-box' store next time I'm in there.
_________________________
John

Top
#209186 - 03/13/13 10:44 PM Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) [Re: BigB]
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 725
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Another location has come up. 120 volt air handler in the attic. Very common here, and they are all plug and cord connected as well.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals