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#20903 - 01/23/03 08:23 PM carpenters doing electrical work
master44 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 13
Loc: Clay Center, Kansas USA
Do any of you have the propblem of carpenters doing wiring in mainly remodels. They just don't call the inspector. They do not need a carpenter's license so can't threaten to have their licence revoked. But you have to have an Electrical license to do any electrical work. What did your municipality do about this . Any ideas!

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#20904 - 01/23/03 09:35 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Master44,
I've lost count of the times, when I have turned up to a job, to find that all of the wiring is botched, and no-one wants to take the blame, in this situation, I would instantly call an Electrical Inspector, they have amazing powers of finding answers over here in NZ!.
Most of our Inspectors, are still employed by the PoCo, and the threat of refusal of supply, often works wonders.
A few times, I have come across a faulty installation after all of the walls have been lined and covered with expensive wall-paper, too, this doesn't tend to go down too well, when you try tell the home-owners that you may need to cut some parts of the walls,
to find the wires!.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#20905 - 01/23/03 09:56 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Master,

I see it a lot. Especially during Kitchen, Basement, and Apartment remodel jobs. Many times the Owner does not really want everything done on the up and up and inspected because that might mean paying higher taxes, or they think they are saving money. But they don't really understand what they are getting from these guys. Other times they do think that it was done by an Electrician because the guy had a truck and everything (??)

Our Dept. of Consumer Affairs encourages everyone to report unlicensed work being done and they do give out Fines when people are caught.

Bill

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#20906 - 01/24/03 04:00 AM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
we have an interesting double standard here in Vermont.

Licensed electricains must play the game, and no one else really needs to....

there exists no license requirements for single family here, the jist of the law meant to exclude a home owner.

but our state laws include loopholes..... so many times have 'GC's , carpenters and the like here wiried residences, assumably under the employ of the home owner.

last fall i had a carpenter 'trim out', eventually calling me because he could not figure a 3W out.

you get the pix

1/2 my biz is untangling thier boo-boos

i've asked the state about this many times, recently our head inspector.

but they are no help, and hide behind the very loopholes that are burning down my state, while adding NEC addendums they will never be able to enforce in single family dwellings.

so i don't bother with the state on this anymore.

WTF good are they?


I'm left to simply protect my own liability as a biz-man and state (via reg letter) that my co. bears no responsibility for the involvement of other trades.

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#20907 - 01/24/03 05:55 AM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Maybe telling the carpenters some Bull Poo-Poo stories about all the houses you have framed, and will be framing in the near future, might have some kind of an impact to these people!

Stir in some extra Baloney about how you get paid tons of bucks - by wealthy clients - to do this; plus add a pinch of how everything is done without a permit or License; and I would bet this gets some reactions!!!

Now YOU will be hearing "Oh, now you just can't be doing this stuff!!!" and end up sending these jokers running away from any hints of messing with Electrical work - in search of these "phantom clients" with unlimited funds for construction work!!!

Something has gotta work to eliminate this nonesense! Reality and Logical thinking doesn't work, threats don't work, all the talking in the world doesn't seem to work; so it's time to try another method of attack - the "Greed factor" and "Jealousy factor" may just work!!!

Only problems I can see would be if someone can get in trouble for B.S.-ing these clowns about fictional scenarios, or if these jokers stumble across more clients while searching for the "Holy Grail Construction Account" clients!

Scott35 S.E.T.
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#20908 - 01/24/03 01:08 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Master44:
I have to agree with Bill Addiss for the most part. We have the same situation here in NJ, as we have HIGH property taxes. Some homeowners are afraid of the Tax Man, and avoid Town Hall, and the Permit fees and inspections.
There are some remodelers (kitchen/bath) that "include" the electrical work, and do it themselves, qualified or not.
THe town I work PT in as an AHJ imposes $500.00 fines on anyone caught doing work without a permit, (Electrical/Plumbing/Building, etc)

The few EC's who get caught get there buns to the Municipal Building real quick!
John
_________________________
John

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#20909 - 01/24/03 05:59 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
Electric Eagle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 928
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
It's kind of funny. Before I got my EC license, I didn't have a problem doing side work. But now, I really hate others doing the same. That said, I knew what I was doing and the guys I have a problem with are "handy" men who think they can do anything, but truthfully they don't do anything really good. I've thought about trying to get some to stop, by reporting them when I see them advertise for electrical work and I know they aren't licensed. It's one thing to change a mushroom light out(although they can screw that up too). It's another thing to wire a basement and add a 100 amp sub panel using #8 THHN with no conduit and only 3 conductors.(true story)

[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 01-24-2003).]

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#20910 - 01/24/03 09:53 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
nesparky Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 650
Loc: omaha,ne
I have found that it all depends on the AHJ and the District attourneys. In places that only want a permit fee, it's not worth the time or phone call to report them. In juridictions that will ENFORCE the laws with heavy fines and jail time, it is worth the call.
It's really quite intresting to here some of those fly by nites telling each other what places to avoid.
By the way, just had a so called GC ask me to hook up the panel for a house. He claims that all the material is there, all the circuits are run and he only needs a licensed electrician to hook up the panel so that the inspector will pass the house.
He also told me what he wants to pay and no more.
I hope he finds a sucker - I'll guarentee he will not like my price.
_________________________
ed

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#20911 - 01/25/03 01:35 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
PT Barnum's old addage come to mind nesparky.

Scott,
do U suppose there is a carpenters forum with a similar B***h ?

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#20912 - 01/25/03 08:44 PM Re: carpenters doing electrical work
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Steve (sparky)

[QUOTE}
Scott,
do U suppose there is a carpenters forum with a similar B***h ?
[/QUOTE]

LOL!!!
No doubt about that at all!!!

Scott35 S.E.T.
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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