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#208420 - 01/17/13 07:47 PM Re: CSST pipe
harold endean Offline
Member
Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2233
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Does anyone out there have trouble with Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing (CSST) and bonding of it? Are the AHJ's enforcing it to be bonded?
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#208422 - 01/17/13 08:17 PM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
Yes, I am enforcing CSST bonding. There is official comments on this in the new issue of the Communicator, both DCA and the Board of Examiners. The Board will allow non-ECs to do the bond, as long as they do not enter a panel to do it. YES, there is a PERMIT required.

Another PITA.
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#208424 - 01/17/13 08:43 PM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
Tesla Offline
Member
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1273
Loc: Sacramento, CA
My limited understanding is that this stuff is now a focus of litigation.

http://claims-management.theclm.org/home/article/over-1-million-for-csst-case

"It's used for both propane and natural gas piping, so anywhere that you would use gas in a residential or commercial setting, you'll likely find CSST used as well—it is the go-to product in the construction industry today. However, many contractors who install it are unaware of its associated dangers when exposed to the electrical energy from lightning. Presently, there are several studies taking place to determine whether bonding, which is similar to grounding, is an effective means of making CSST safe. In the field, we have seen bonded and non-bonded systems experience the same type of failure from this energy, so there is a legitimate question as to whether bonding is the answer."



Edited by Tesla (01/17/13 08:43 PM)
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#208426 - 01/18/13 07:40 AM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
OK, I am aware of the issues, and in my humble opinion, this subject is a PITA. But, until there are changes within the applicable codes I have no choice in this matter.

Talk on the street is that there will be a change forthcoming to eliminate the required bonding.

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John
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#208427 - 01/18/13 07:44 AM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
If anyone is interested, here is a link to the NJ Construction Code Communicator (DCA) referencing the CSST

It's in Vol 24, No.3.....

http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/publications/ccc.html

All previous issues are at this link also.
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John
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#208430 - 01/18/13 09:29 AM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Whoa,, Nelly .... hold your horses! Did anyone read that first link, the one about the judgement?

The CSST was damaged by a lightning strite a HALF MILE away?

What about all the other places closer to the strike? Was there no CSST in them?

I figure that at a half-mile distance, that CSST ought not have been exposed to ANY transient voltage. Maybe I'm ignorant. I don't have any hard proof, but I'm pretty sure I've had lightning strike a lot closer than 1/2 mile from me many times. Yet we're supposed to accept that enough volts accumulated on the CSST to burn through the PVC wrapper and arc to a nearby duct, igniting the gas as it did.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

Maybe the trial lawyers will call this stuff C$$T. laugh
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#208432 - 01/18/13 04:18 PM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
Tesla Offline
Member
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1273
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Reno...

That particular publication is entirely oriented towards trial lawyers....

It's a wet thumb in the wind.

Wait until the lawsuits over rooftop solar arrays kick in.

You know that roofs are being damaged all over America.
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Tesla
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#208435 - 01/18/13 09:49 PM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
schenimann Offline
Member
Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Western North Carolina
We are required to bond all csst according to manu specs. #6 back to the service.

I priced one job where they had a hole in the pipe and were wanting to get it bonded. It was in a detached boiler room of an apartment building. The quote was about $1,000 to bring the proper size back to the MDP. The management called me 2 weeks later asking why it was so high, they had gotten some other prices for under $200.00. I told them they could not get it inspected because it would be wrong and this would need to be inspected. They stil have not had the work done.

Even if it is done the manu specs, I don't know if it matters. I think it is questionable whether it will be covered. Thus the trial lawers and endless litigation.
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#208436 - 01/18/13 09:50 PM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
schenimann Offline
Member
Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Western North Carolina
correction:
Mininum #6 copper back to service
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#208442 - 01/19/13 09:57 AM Re: CSST pipe [Re: harold endean]
harold endean Offline
Member
Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2233
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Here comes another dilemma, now that anyone can "Bond" CSST pipe, the electrical AHJ goes out to inspect. He will run into a plumber who is "Certified" to install CSST pipe. However he bonds it the way the manufacture says to. However it doesn't meet the way the state design shows. So the AHJ fails the job and I am sure the plumber will argue this call.
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