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#207189 - 10/02/12 10:37 PM Panel Change-out  
Shamrock  Offline
New Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5
How would you look at this? I am in the process of changing a 100 amp 20 cir to 100 amp cir 30 on a interior wall with crawl space bellow. 3 wire SE, PVC feed to bottom of panel,exiting through foundation, under concrete pad in breeze way underground and out to meter socket on a pole 150'away. Now after talking with inspector I need to bring up to current code by adding a Main Breaker at pole or outside then adding a EGC which now makes my panel a SUB. I see this as challenging and very costly I know code does not have pity on anyone. I have read 250-32(B) EX: For installation made in compliance with previous editions of this code that permitted such connection, the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be permitted to serve as the G-fault return path if all the following are met (1), (2), (3). I am trying to understand the code and respect the AHJ and do it right the first time.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#207190 - 10/03/12 01:05 AM Re: Panel Change-out [Re: Shamrock]  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Where does the Grounding Electrode Conductor Terminate to the Grounded Conductor + Bond to the Metallic Enclosure:

a: Meter Socket...
(mounted on Pole, remote from Panelboard),


b: Panelboard...
(mounted at the Structure),


c: At Both Locations...
(Meter Socket and Panelboard have Grounding Electrode Conductors Terminating to the System Grounded Conductor + Metallic Eq. Bonding).

Secondly, does any Metallic "Path" exist between the Meter Socket's Pole and the Dwelling Structure?

Lastly, how do you intend to install a Service Disconnecting means at the Meter Socket / outside the Main Service Equipment Panelboard; and will the pending installation be compliant to the Utility's Electrical Service Requirements?

-- Scott (EE)

Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#207192 - 10/03/12 02:50 AM Re: Panel Change-out [Re: Shamrock]  
gfretwell  Online Content

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,059
If your AHJ is not willing to grandfather the SE from the pole in it's current configuration, you are going to have to pull in a 4 wire feeder since the 250.32 change. There is not a lot of wiggle room.

I would consider allowing this under the exception since you are not changing the SE (AKA a service upgrade) but I am not your AHJ.

Greg Fretwell

#207195 - 10/03/12 09:28 AM Re: Panel Change-out [Re: Shamrock]  
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
I'll add a "ditto" to what Greg said above.

Panel change outs without a 'service upgrade' fall under the Rehab Code here in NJ for the most part.


#207196 - 10/04/12 01:35 AM Re: Panel Change-out [Re: Scott35]  
Shamrock  Offline
New Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5
Thanks for all the input. I have to talk with the inspector again now that I have studied the code quite a bit more. Scott
the meter socket and the panelboard both are bonded to neutral and there is no metal path to dwelling. I have not talked to the Utilities about putting a Main Breaker/Meter Socket in place of what is there now! Will have to see what works out with the AHJ.

Thanks Shamrock,

#207212 - 10/08/12 06:28 AM Re: Panel Change-out [Re: Shamrock]  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Good luck with this Upgrade Project.

I am curious about One thing:
Is there a Grounding Electrode at the Meter Socket / Pole, which is bonded to the Meter Socket Enclosure / Grounded Conductor via a Grounding Electrode Conductor?

This Grounding Electrode could be either:
a. Driven Rod (AKA "Ground Rod");

b. Armor Clad #6 Solid Copper, stapled to one side of the Pole, extending to the buried end of the Pole (+/- 72" below grade).

I am 99.9999988543% sure there is some type of GES at the Meter Pole. Most probable option would be the #6 AC attached to the Pole, with the Driven Ground Rod coming in 2nd Place.

Nevertheless, if the System in its current configuration has:

1. A Grounding Electrode System at both the Meter Pole and the Dwelling;

2. The Meter Socket / Grounded Conductor is bonded to the GES at the Meter Pole;

3. The Main Service Panelboard at the Dwelling is bonded to the GES at the Dwelling;

4. There are no Metallic Conductive Paths between the Two Grounding Electrodes...

Then the setup is not a hazard issue, and is Code Compliant.

Replacement of the Service Panelboard at the Dwelling does not introduce any change in the Service Entrance Feeder - even if a Main Service Disconnect (Main Breaker) was included in, or outside the upgraded Panelboard.

The above is IMHO, however the AHJ(s) will determine Compliance per Code (NEC ((or amendments to NEC)), or ESR Manual), either of which should be available for review via printed / published Text.

-- Scott (EE)

Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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