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#206430 - 07/01/12 08:08 PM The Kiosk Blog
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
A new drive-up 'coffee' kiosk is being place near me, and the installation has piqued my curiosity. In this thread, I'd like yo get a discussion going, one that goes beyond the simple 'what's wrong here' type of discussion.

Here's an overall view of the kiosk:



I'd like to open the blog by discussing the service. Mt first question to the audience is: would you allow the kiosk to be served directly by an overhead drop, or would you treat it like a mobile home, and require a pedestal be set?

Please note that the kiosk is simply sitting on the parking lot, and is not anchored in any way.

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#206432 - 07/01/12 08:49 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
schenimann Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 194
Loc: Western North Carolina
Our local codes require it to be permanently achored and you must own the land to place a meter on a mobile home. I wouldn't think that this would meet those requirements. Also, our poco would require some kind of secondary support(wires, etc)on that mast head.

Is that a an old footing around the right side or has something been trenched in?

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#206433 - 07/01/12 09:10 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
The pavement has been broken, but the trench for the sewer connection has not been yet dug.

Do I understand that it it your opinion that a pedestal should have been set, and the kiosk powered from the pedestal?

If so, would you require bollards or other protection for the pedestal?

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#206440 - 07/02/12 08:22 AM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
mbhydro Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 344
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Out here the PoCo determines the service point connection style.

Because there is an existing pole line behind (in front?} they would probably want to service it from there as shown.

If they were to do u/g from the pole (at the owners expense) they would bring the service up the side wall into the meter just like a residential or small business service.

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#206441 - 07/02/12 06:04 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I am going to be drawing some references from two widely scattered locations: one in serious mountain / quake country, and another in a rural flatland on the fringe of hurricane country. If I had to, I would guess you're based in one of those heavily developed areas that simply don't want trailers, period. In any event, I'd look at more than just the NEC for guidance on this issue.

I see that Article 550 of the NEC, "Mobile Homes," does have buildings such as this one covered within its' scope (550.4). I also see that the NEC does allow for a permanent power connection (550.10A and I), and does not set any conditions (such as anchoring the building). Of interest also is that the NEC appears to limit service to 'non dwelling unit' mobile homes to 60-amps; that could be a problem for a commercial kiosk.

Yet a view of the standard of NVEnergy https://www.nvenergy.com/business/newcon...N_7/UM0001M.pdf shows an absolute assumption that the mobile home will be powered from a pedestal. The view of NVEnergy is relevant, as their area includes Sun Valley, Nv., location of the worlds' largest mobile home park.

The NVEnergy standards also call for protective barriers (bollards) where there is a danger of impact. I don't know about landlords in your areas, but I suspect property owners get nervous when you start punching holes in the parking lot and sinking bollards. (As if that trench they're digging isn't disruptive enough!).

Personally, I don't know where I stand on the matter. That kiosk can be readily shifted about simply by a snow plow pushing piles of snow about- or a distracted driver. Then again, a fixed pole or pedestal can also be hit - and you still have to make that final connection to the kiosk.

Scheineman ... that's a good observation, and I promise that the mast will be discussed once we've decided whether any sort of permanent service is appropriate.=


Edited by renosteinke (07/02/12 06:05 PM)
Edit Reason: Cat typed in something

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#206443 - 07/02/12 07:04 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
The Garden State take....service location is a POCO decission. As it is in the pic, it must have guy wire(s) on the mast. And, our POCO does not allow the GEC into the meter pan.

As to the structure, it would be required to be secured to the terra firma That's not NEC, but building codes.

If it was a UG from the POCO (at customers expense) you would be installing bollards.

Is that anoher service drop to he pylon sign??
_________________________
John

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#206445 - 07/02/12 07:37 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Good eye, Hotline ... yes, there is another service serving the sign. The sign is not associated with the kiosk. As you may have guessed, I spent some time removing any identifying names, etc., from the picture.`

I see what you mean about the GEC. Yes, that appears to be just a meter pan, with the disco in the can to the left. I'll see if I can open things up and have a look.

(Simple fact is, it's been so long since I installed a simple meter base I've forgot they exist!)

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#206446 - 07/02/12 09:46 PM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
LarryC Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 776
Loc: Winchester, NH, US
Showing my ignorance and my age, how did they power up the Foto mats of the 60'and 70's?

Weren't they basically stand alone buildings with a service drop to them? I don't remember bollards and underground services.


Edited by LarryC (07/02/12 09:59 PM)

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#206447 - 07/03/12 01:07 AM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: LarryC]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1295
Loc: Alaska
I wouldn't classify them as a modular home or trailer. Barring, local ordinances, How would you wire in like a job trailer? Why would you have some one chop up a parking lot for a "temporary" building? Bollards only if the service was in close proximity to traffic.
_________________________
"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

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#206448 - 07/03/12 10:13 AM Re: The Kiosk Blog [Re: renosteinke]
mbhydro Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 344
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I should have added that I was thinking its no different from site offices/job trailers.

Depending on the project they can be there for years and have a service like shown in the picture.

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