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#206346 - 06/17/12 06:41 PM Plumber doing electrical??
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Found this on a re-inspection. No GFI, no cover on receptacle, open KOs...



Edited by HotLine1 (06/17/12 06:41 PM)
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#206377 - 06/22/12 09:08 AM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
JoeKP Offline
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Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 144
Loc: Berkley, MA
Shower of sparks wink
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#206380 - 06/25/12 12:48 AM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
Albert Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Is the 45 going into the box a chrome shower arm?
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#206381 - 06/25/12 06:31 AM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Yes sir! That it is!
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#206382 - 06/25/12 01:05 PM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
renosteinke Offline
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Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I never thought of that ... a shower arm .... well, you've got to admire his resourcefullness!

Now ... let's open our minds a bit, and ask "what's REALLY wrong with this installation?"

That is, let's overlook all the 'pro forma' things like the lack of a UL sticker. Instead, let's pretend we're standing in the lab at UL, and this kludge comes in to be evaluated for listing.

What points would you focus on? Could something like this pass muster?
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#206383 - 06/25/12 01:11 PM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
1/2" IMC/RGC & a bender with some talent could rectify this.

"It works"?? Yes, is there a equip ground path? Yes! Even thru the plumbing copper fitting. Could UL or any RTL be OK with this? Perhaps. But....paying the $$$$$ for evaluation IMHO is not cost effective. (See opening line of this post)

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#206393 - 06/27/12 09:06 AM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
LarryC Offline
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Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 780
Loc: Winchester, NH, US
Would the surface finish of the interior of the pipe and fittings be a cause for concern? Specifically the edges of the threaded portions.
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#206394 - 06/27/12 11:50 AM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Judging on the workmanship...probably NM in the pipe.

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#206398 - 06/28/12 02:01 PM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
renosteinke Offline
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Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Hotline, I wasn't referring to a one-off 'field evaluation.' I was asking ... what's really wrong here?

I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of thoughtful replies. Maybe I should give it a try ...

Code already requires the pipe ends to b free of burrs and sharp edges.

Let's look at that shower arm as if it were any other piece of conduit:
OK, I see threads. Would it pass muster as IMC? After all, there are strength and wall thickness requirements for IMC.
There's also a minimum bending radius. Does this comply?
One difference between plumbing pipe and electrical pipe is that the ASTM standard specifies that the inside of electrical pipe be 'smooth.' In practice, this means that the lengthwise ridge formed when the pipe was welded together has been removed. What does the inside look like here?
I expect the plating does give enough corrosion protection.

What about copper pipe / tubing? Well, if you look at the relevand product standards, there's always room for alternative materials of similar strength. Maybe one of the copper tubing grades would pass muster as EMT.

A problem arises with the fittings, as code tells us we cannot rely upon solder alone for our connections. Now, if they used an old-style 'dimpler' together with solder, they'd be good to go.

Let's look at that Bell box. First off, what's to keep the connection from coming loose? I'd want to see a locknut there.
Just as important, code requires the box to be supported by at least two conduits, where conduitprovides the support. I only see one.

Open KO's, etc., are issues that would apply to any installation.
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#206401 - 06/28/12 08:15 PM Re: Plumber doing electrical?? [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
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Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2233
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Gee John,


A plumbing shower arm for electrical work. What's wrong with that? Now your getting picky! smile
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