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#20617 - 01/17/03 07:05 AM Another scary forum posting
wageoghe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Check here for a discussion from the ThatHomeSite Appliances forum. Lee676 has a new 240V/30A Amana Wave Oven. He lives in an apartment without the correct type of receptacle. Quite a bit of scary info is being passed back and forth about how he can get this thing running, without adding a new circuit to his FPE panel.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg1013311114918.html

Here is a link to his panel ( the one at the top of the link above does not work ):
http://www.boomspeed.com/t01hh/dir514068823056987447/epanel.jpg

Note this method of connection posted about halfway down the page:

I finally got around to trying to run the Wave Oven from my existing electrical setup. Before buying a buck/boost transformer to raise the voltage from 208V to 240V, and even before fabricating a dual-120V to 208V converter box (much less altering the breakers in the electric panel), I wanted to somehow try out the oven to be sure it at least powered up and seemed to be functioning. Since I discovered the two existing 120V/20A circuits here are on different legs of the building's 3-phase 208V service, I knew I could combine the two "hots" to effectively create one 208V/20A circuit.
Now, Amana specifies a 240V/30A circuit, but since the Wave draws less than 23A, I figured with by setting the halogen lamps at low or perhaps medium intensity I could keep the power draw below 20A. And the oven is set up to flash an error message if the voltage is too high or low, and since it's designed for only 240V, not 208V/240V, I expected that to occur here. Even more so since the commercial Wave oven is sold in separate 208V and 240V versions. Still, it was worth trying to run it at 208V/20A before I spent $100+ on a transformer. I had already purchased a 6-30R outlet and a deep electrical box, to which I attached some short 10AWG cables I had around. Not having any 120V plugs around, I carefully inserted the individual wires in the hot slots in two different 120V outlets and in the ground hole in one of them. Then I flipped on the two 20A circuit breakers.

The Wave Oven display lit up, but only to tell me the lower glass lamp shield wasn't installed properly. I'm still not sure how it's supposed to go in - it can be inserted any of four ways, plus there's a separate metal bar that may fit in at the front or back of the glass shield. I'll have to call Amana about this. At the back of the oven, there's a spring-loaded push switch that detects the presence of the lamp shield. I eventually used a small metal screw as a shim to push the shield against the switch. That prompted the ready screen.

At least it hadn't complained of low voltage. So far, so good. So I threw in some food and fired it up... and - IT WORKS!! I even tried it briefly on the "medium" lamp intensity, and that didn't seem to cause any trouble either. I didn't brave running it at "high", but that would overload the circuit for sure since the bulbs themselves draw more than 20A at full power. Since one leg of the 208V power was reaching the oven via a 14AWG extension cord, I didn't want to run the oven for too long, but it seems to be working fine so far.

Needless to say, this setup is incredibly mickey-mouse, but I'm encouraged enough to fabricate a less temporary circuit combiner box that would allow me to keep it plugged in all the time. Of course, by utilizing my existing circuits I must temporarily shut off or unplug my refrigerator and refrain from using other devices on the same circuits so the oven can get a "dedicated" circuit. At some point I still want to upgrade to 30A service so I can run the oven at full power, but at least it looks like I may not need a 208V to 240V transformer.

I'll post my first impressions of the oven itself in the main speed oven thread soon.

You don't know what a head rush it is running a 240V appliance in this place!


Here is a later post with an "improved" connection method:

I've now created a "temporary" 208V/20A power outlet for the Amana Wave oven. I used a standard 6-30R outlet mounted in a deep plastic wallbox. From there, I ran two NM-B 12/2 cables to two separate 5-20P (120V/20A) plugs. One of the plugs has a black wire connecting the hot prong to one of the hot slots on the 208V outlet; the other plug has a black wire connecting the hot prong to the other 208V receptacle hot slot plus a bare ground wire between the 120V ground prong and the 208V receptacle ground slot. At first I was going to use standard-issue 120V/15A plugs, but decided instead to use the 20A plugs (with one "sideways" prong) and replace two 120V/15A outlets with 120V/20A receptacles. I'm not sure if there's any difference between 15A and 20A plugs or outlets beyond the different shape that allows or prevents a 20A plug from being inserted into a 15A outlet, but I noticed the 20A plug was bigger and more expensive, and the 20A receptacle was pricier as well, so I figured they might be designed to handle higher wattage as well as being shaped differently. Or maybe the higher cost is just due to their relative rarity. One of the outlets I removed was a GFCI that accepted only standard 15A plugs, but was nonetheless rated at 20A, not sure why. The new outlet wasn't a GFCI and doesn't need to be in that location. For some reason, none of the GFCIs in the kitchen are working properly anyway; pressing the "test" button caused the reset button to pop out with the usual "click", but the outlet remains hot. The one I removed was wired correctly, don't know about the others.
Anyway, this setup will have to do until I remove some cabinets and try installing a real 30A circuit. I found I was not only able to run the Wave Oven at "medium" power, but also with the lower lamps set at "high" power. Using this setting, the four lower lamps light at what I assume is full power (3000W total) and the four outer top lamps also light but at low power. The total power draw probably falls just under the 4160W maximum available. Or maybe my FPE breakers aren't tripping when they should.

So far the oven hasn't complained about being fed only 208V instead of 240V power.

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#20618 - 01/17/03 07:29 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
I'm not sure if there's any difference between 15A and 20A plugs or outlets beyond the different shape that allows or prevents a 20A plug from being inserted into a 15A outlet, but I noticed the 20A plug was bigger and more expensive, and the 20A receptacle was pricier as well, so I figured they might be designed to handle higher wattage as well as being shaped differently


What in BLAZES is this guy doing?

Isn't it much easier to hire a guy to come and wire this up the right way? Not to mention cheaper than all this crap he says he's bought???

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#20619 - 01/17/03 07:58 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
mamills Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 739
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
My God!!!

The only statement that even halfway makes any sense is "...this setup is incredibly Mickey-Mouse..." (the capital M's are mine...for added emphasis ).

Somebody start casting another Darwin Award...and forewarn this guy's local Fire Department while you're at it.

Sven; i think you touched on a key word... BLAZES.

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 01-17-2003).]

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#20620 - 01/17/03 08:53 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
Trainwire Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 364
Loc: Strasburg,PA,USA
Dunner Vetter, and this guy is proud enough of this getup to tell the world about it?
Yipe.

TW

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#20621 - 01/17/03 08:58 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
cubby964 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 69
Loc: USA
I like the other responder who was worried that the "building management" would not approve of the new work! What about the AHJ?

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#20622 - 01/17/03 09:26 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
mamills Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 739
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
If you're looking for some really interesting reading, go to the first link wageoghe mentions, and read the entire thread. I don't think Alfred Hitchcock ever came up with anything this frightening . Even a modest imagination like mine conjures up some horrifying scenarios after reading this (it kinda sounds like something from the old "Mr. Wizard" TV show).

Mike (mamills)

Hi, Trainwire; What does "Dunner Vetter" mean?

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 01-17-2003).]

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#20623 - 01/17/03 10:08 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
Trainwire Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 364
Loc: Strasburg,PA,USA
It's Pennsylvania Dutch. Translates roughly into "thunder n' lightnin' " Holy smoke, would be what most of the rest of us "engish" would say instead.

TW
edit to correct my grammer

[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 01-17-2003).]

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#20624 - 01/17/03 10:28 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
Scotts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 224
Loc: Ventura, CA, USA
TW,

You are right. That(again) is what I was thinking. How he is boasting about what a great job he has done.

BTW. What does everyone think of his panel?

Scott

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#20625 - 01/17/03 10:45 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Scary s**t !!!
Scotts,so is the panel.I wonder what's up with the different size phase conductors?

Dunner Vetter indeed.
_________________________
Donnie

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#20626 - 01/17/03 10:51 AM Re: Another scary forum posting
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2342
Loc: West Virginia
 Quote:
...Or maybe my FPE breakers aren't tripping when they should.


_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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