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#206148 - 05/29/12 07:26 PM afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts.  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
I'm doing a service change at a Cal. house that has had all its 2 wire K&T recept.s swapped for ungrounded 3wire recept....Will a combo Afci/Gfci bkr meet with no equipment ground label. or do I have to put gfci prot label as well, HO is trying to sell house, or do I talk him into replacing with non-ground TR's 2010 CEC, thanks Chris I have not done any rewiring ex. refeed the closet fuse box to splices only. C


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#206164 - 05/30/12 09:22 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s


#206165 - 05/30/12 09:37 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
I have not seen any TR two wire receptacles, and none are in the P&S literature I have.

I have to ask....why TR?? Is that a CEC thing?


John

#206166 - 05/30/12 09:40 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s


#206167 - 05/30/12 09:46 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
Oh the Inspector has stated on a corr. notice that recept.s be two-wire of TR type, for all replaced knob and tube outlets. The Homeowner bought the place with the plugs already replaced, I guess it passed the selling inspection 13 years ago when he bought it. He's now trying to make the service safer instead of being in a cabinet at grade with the gas meter, opened a can of worms


#206168 - 05/30/12 09:50 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
or gfci protected and labeled no eq. ground, gfci prot.,


#206172 - 05/31/12 02:20 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
gfretwell  Offline


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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,059
Estero,Fl,usa
I think a GFCI breaker would allow replacement with the TR 5-15s.
406.3(D)(3)(c) in 2008 406.3(D)(2)(c) in 2011

Quote
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.



The requirement for AFCI would be a local call. A breaker incorporating both should work

The 2011 code requires this effective 1/1/14
406.3(D)(4)


Greg Fretwell

#206173 - 05/31/12 03:07 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
crselectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 133
albany, ca
thanks greg, I do believe he was stating the 2008 code for TR recept.s but also didnt write a correction but said all convenience receptacles should be afci protected. but that was for new circuits, and all I've run are circuits to refeed the old fuse panel,


#206174 - 05/31/12 03:27 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,059
Estero,Fl,usa
AFCI on old work seems to be all over the place depending on how your "rehab/existing building" codes are written and what your AHJ wants. I usually avoid trying to guess what the local guys want. If the 2011 is adopted and they leave 406.3 intact a lot of that indecision will go away. You will be doing AFCI and GFCI on any replacements after 1/1/14 the way I read it.


Greg Fretwell


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