The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Today at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm² flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 282 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#206148 - 05/29/12 04:26 PM afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts.
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
I'm doing a service change at a Cal. house that has had all its 2 wire K&T recept.s swapped for ungrounded 3wire recept....Will a combo Afci/Gfci bkr meet with no equipment ground label. or do I have to put gfci prot label as well, HO is trying to sell house, or do I talk him into replacing with non-ground TR's 2010 CEC, thanks Chris I have not done any rewiring ex. refeed the closet fuse box to splices only. C

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#206164 - 05/30/12 06:22 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s

Top
#206165 - 05/30/12 06:37 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
I have not seen any TR two wire receptacles, and none are in the P&S literature I have.

I have to ask....why TR?? Is that a CEC thing?
_________________________
John

Top
#206166 - 05/30/12 06:40 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s

Top
#206167 - 05/30/12 06:46 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
Oh the Inspector has stated on a corr. notice that recept.s be two-wire of TR type, for all replaced knob and tube outlets. The Homeowner bought the place with the plugs already replaced, I guess it passed the selling inspection 13 years ago when he bought it. He's now trying to make the service safer instead of being in a cabinet at grade with the gas meter, opened a can of worms

Top
#206168 - 05/30/12 06:50 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
or gfci protected and labeled no eq. ground, gfci prot.,

Top
#206172 - 05/30/12 11:20 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think a GFCI breaker would allow replacement with the TR 5-15s.
406.3(D)(3)(c) in 2008 406.3(D)(2)(c) in 2011

Quote:
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.



The requirement for AFCI would be a local call. A breaker incorporating both should work

The 2011 code requires this effective 1/1/14
406.3(D)(4)
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#206173 - 05/31/12 12:07 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 134
Loc: albany, ca
thanks greg, I do believe he was stating the 2008 code for TR recept.s but also didnt write a correction but said all convenience receptacles should be afci protected. but that was for new circuits, and all I've run are circuits to refeed the old fuse panel,

Top
#206174 - 05/31/12 12:27 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
AFCI on old work seems to be all over the place depending on how your "rehab/existing building" codes are written and what your AHJ wants. I usually avoid trying to guess what the local guys want. If the 2011 is adopted and they leave 406.3 intact a lot of that indecision will go away. You will be doing AFCI and GFCI on any replacements after 1/1/14 the way I read it.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals