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#206148 - 05/29/12 04:26 PM afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts.
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
I'm doing a service change at a Cal. house that has had all its 2 wire K&T recept.s swapped for ungrounded 3wire recept....Will a combo Afci/Gfci bkr meet with no equipment ground label. or do I have to put gfci prot label as well, HO is trying to sell house, or do I talk him into replacing with non-ground TR's 2010 CEC, thanks Chris I have not done any rewiring ex. refeed the closet fuse box to splices only. C
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#206164 - 05/30/12 06:22 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s
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#206165 - 05/30/12 06:37 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6776
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
I have not seen any TR two wire receptacles, and none are in the P&S literature I have.

I have to ask....why TR?? Is that a CEC thing?
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John
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#206166 - 05/30/12 06:40 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
My question is will a combo afci/gfci breaker meet the gfci req. for replaced receptacles on K&T circuits, also has anyone seen tamper resist. 2-wire recept.s
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#206167 - 05/30/12 06:46 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
Oh the Inspector has stated on a corr. notice that recept.s be two-wire of TR type, for all replaced knob and tube outlets. The Homeowner bought the place with the plugs already replaced, I guess it passed the selling inspection 13 years ago when he bought it. He's now trying to make the service safer instead of being in a cabinet at grade with the gas meter, opened a can of worms
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#206168 - 05/30/12 06:50 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
or gfci protected and labeled no eq. ground, gfci prot.,
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#206172 - 05/30/12 11:20 PM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think a GFCI breaker would allow replacement with the TR 5-15s.
406.3(D)(3)(c) in 2008 406.3(D)(2)(c) in 2011

Quote:
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.



The requirement for AFCI would be a local call. A breaker incorporating both should work

The 2011 code requires this effective 1/1/14
406.3(D)(4)
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
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#206173 - 05/31/12 12:07 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
thanks greg, I do believe he was stating the 2008 code for TR recept.s but also didnt write a correction but said all convenience receptacles should be afci protected. but that was for new circuits, and all I've run are circuits to refeed the old fuse panel,
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#206174 - 05/31/12 12:27 AM Re: afci/gfci protection for 2 wire recepts. [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
AFCI on old work seems to be all over the place depending on how your "rehab/existing building" codes are written and what your AHJ wants. I usually avoid trying to guess what the local guys want. If the 2011 is adopted and they leave 406.3 intact a lot of that indecision will go away. You will be doing AFCI and GFCI on any replacements after 1/1/14 the way I read it.
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Greg Fretwell
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