The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Correct rotation, wrong sequence
by Potseal
Yesterday at 03:14 PM
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
12/09/16 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 11
HotLine1 10
Potseal 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 7
Who's Online
0 registered (), 224 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#205918 - 04/25/12 11:31 AM Interesting spin on 430.22(B)
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If a guy used 430.52 to size his breaker and ended up with a hard wired pool pump on a single pole 30, he would not need GFCI.

Quote:
(B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#205919 - 04/25/12 04:43 PM Re: Interesting spin on 430.22(B) [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
Yes, that scenario would fly. I have not seen anyone go down that path, & I would not be the guide.

Yes, as you say, it would be compliant, and acceptable using that path, but...if I was the EC, I would not go there. GFI protection costs are not that high.

Let's see what everybody else says!!
_________________________
John

Top
#205921 - 04/26/12 12:25 PM Re: Interesting spin on 430.22(B) [Re: gfretwell]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
What's the surprise? Heck, use a 10-amp breaker and it works too!

Put your house on 10-amp breakers and you don't need AFCI's laugh ..... as a result of the NEC using the exact sort of language.

Top
#205930 - 04/27/12 07:12 PM Re: Interesting spin on 430.22(B) [Re: gfretwell]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
The problem I can see with house on 10 Amp circuits not needing AFCI?...... There aren't any 10 Amp receptacles. smile

Top
#205935 - 04/28/12 11:21 PM Re: Interesting spin on 430.22(B) [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
This actually came up on a home owner BB. The guy had a pool pump on a 25 (2 pole).

I suggested the right fix was a 20A GFCI but the code question did nag me.
I do believe, if your pool pump is tripping a GFCI, you have a bad pool pump.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#205936 - 04/28/12 11:28 PM Re: Interesting spin on 430.22(B) [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I have heard a couple of discussions about the 10a breaker thing.
The first issue is the number of 10a circuits you would need to get the 3va per sq foot. That might be a show stopper right there.
The other one is the 210.21(B)(2) problem.

I have heard a more compelling argument if the 10a only served the smoke alarms. That could make some sense.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals