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#203672 - 10/18/11 09:29 PM Re: Tie wraps
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
I have been on this board for a long time and I sometimes forget which topics we have discussed.

Anyway what is everyone's thought about using tie wraps to secure AC or MC cables to metal studs in a construction job? Should it be allowed? Is it allowed? Code sections or manufactures instructions?

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#203680 - 10/19/11 09:28 AM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
Niko Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
as far as i know it is OK.

330.30 Securing and Supporting
(A) General. Type MC cable shall be supported and secured
by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings
or other approved means designed and installed so as
not to damage the cable.

But i have had people say "approved means" is to be approved for that purpose but some say "approved means" basically means an approved strap or tie that has been approved for general strapping.

All though there are staples that are designed for romex and bx cable and romex cable only. I dont see any difference in them but they are listed for two separate cables.


Edited by Niko (10/19/11 09:35 AM)
Edit Reason: added
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#203681 - 10/19/11 10:00 AM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
Gregtaylor Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Boise, Idaho, USA
Well, since that code citation specifically names cable ties and then goes on to say "or OTHER approved means" I'd say they were fine. I've never been turned down for it when I pointed this out to the AHJ.

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#203682 - 10/19/11 10:39 AM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The only admonition I have is that you have to be sure they are tied in a way that insures the 1.25". I see guys get pretty sloppy with tywraps, making the whole process look like an after thought. Remember the intent.

There is another problem, not really safety related but an issue for the building owner/tenant. If you do not strap metal wiring methods down well, it will rattle every time someone slams a door or a big truck goes down the road. I had a loose EMT in my wall at work that was really annoying. I finally poked a hole in the wall and fixed it when they were getting ready to paint the place. After listening to it for 2 years, I knew right where to look. wink
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#203687 - 10/19/11 12:34 PM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Ty wraps are acceptable for support. As Greg said, sometimes it tends to get sloppy, and the 1.25" non-compliance buys a red sticker.

On a similar note...any thoughts to using 'tape'? Electrical tape, black or any color??

Some guys try to get away with tape to the ceiling wires.



Edited by HotLine1 (10/19/11 12:36 PM)
Edit Reason: added a thought.
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#203689 - 10/19/11 01:06 PM Re: Tie wraps [Re: HotLine1]
KJay Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
The only concern I would have would be where fire code for a commercial building would prevent using ordinary plastic ties and instead would require either the steel ties or the plenum/fire rated plastic ties.
Other than that, I don't really see a problem.

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#203694 - 10/19/11 08:12 PM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
Tesla Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Nylon tywraps are going to melt at the same temperatures that will ruin the insulation of THHN.

So I've never had an AHJ object to them.

Indeed, super ty-wraps are routinely used by other trades ( HVAC ) for installations above the grid.
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#203701 - 10/20/11 07:26 AM Re: Tie wraps [Re: Tesla]
KJay Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
IMO, the fire code would be more about smoke control and keeping things secured when heat buildup occurs. The regular plastic ties will likely add more more toxic smoke to an area as well as melt long before the metal of the MC or armored cable does, which could release the bundles of cables and allow them to fall, creating even more property damage and additional hazards to first responders.


Edited by KJay (10/20/11 07:28 AM)

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#203709 - 10/20/11 09:43 AM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I believe these are usually just holding the wiring method in place until the rockers are done. After that the cables could be fished so we don't care if they fall down ... or so the logic goes.
If this was exposed work, I doubt I would let tywraps be used.
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#203713 - 10/20/11 12:04 PM Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Plenum rated ty wraps solve the fire code aspects of smoke/toxic fumes, as do the stainless steel ty wraps. The ss are cheaper then the plenum rated, last I heard.

The last jib I saw the plenum rated, they were easily identified by 'purple' color. I don't know if that is a mfg 'standard', or was just for that particular brand.
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