The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
breaker meltdown
by sparky
Yesterday at 07:30 PM
230 or 345 kV transmission lines?
by Vlado
09/24/16 09:33 AM
Electrical mast flashing product
by ThomasWinfrey
09/22/16 12:14 AM
What estimating software do you recommend?
by sparky
09/21/16 07:20 PM
"Dry Run" Inspection goes awry
by HotLine1
09/20/16 07:39 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm≤ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
HotLine1 14
sparky 10
sparky66wv 8
gfretwell 8
Vlado 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 54 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#201991 - 07/07/11 06:56 PM RNC primer?
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I was pasting some pipe today and it occurred to me, do you use primer on RNC?
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#201992 - 07/07/11 07:01 PM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

No, never did personally. IMHO, per mfg instructions (Carlon, last I looked) they only sold glue. A little caveat to this subject, their instructions allude that the PVC 'system' to be UL listing compliant MUST all be from same mfg; Carlon in this case.
_________________________
John

Top
#201995 - 07/07/11 10:56 PM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Has anyone actually failed a job for not using Carlon cement?

What if you had Carlon pipe and Cantex fittings. Would you use 2 different cans of cement? (one on each side)

My real question was more directed to cleaning dirty pipe. Do you think that is a good idea? A plumber/plumbing inspector will tell you that the primer makes that joint several times stronger, particularly if the pipe is dirty.

BTW maybe the lack of primer is why Carflex is not listed in a cemented fitting. I guarantee you, if you prime it and glue it, the fitting will pull out of the box before the joint fails.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#201997 - 07/08/11 12:54 AM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
I would not red tag a job if a different brand of glue was used then the pipe providing the glue used was listed for use on electrical PVC conduit. No different then mixing pipes of different makers IMO
_________________________
"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

Top
#201999 - 07/08/11 01:21 AM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Quote:
I would not red tag a job if a different brand of glue was used


That sort of blows away the 110.2(B) thing then doesn't it?
The manufacturer instructions say to use THEIR cement. wink

At a certain point this becomes the classified breaker argument.

BTW I bet if you look at Carlon cement, Cantex Cement and Oatey (plumber's cement) the MSDS will say they have the same ingredients.

At any rate that was not where I was going

I was just curious if anyone cleans the pipe with primer and I got that answer.

No.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#202000 - 07/08/11 07:37 AM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
schenimann Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 194
Loc: Western North Carolina
Does wiping it off with my hand count. That's the only cleaner the pipe gets.

Top
#202003 - 07/08/11 10:21 AM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I suppose it depends on whether you care if the joint pulls apart.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#202004 - 07/08/11 12:21 PM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

My comment re: Carlon was something that came up a few years ago. NO, I did not fail anyone, nor am I aware of anyone that failed, other than one (1) instance of this issue. The supporting data was mined from the Carlon mfg installation PDF via Carlon website.

As to cleaning PVC, with my EC hat on, practice was to wipe the ends & bell with a clean rag before applying glue. I do not remember any pull aparts.

Should I apologize for going off your original inquiry.....sorry!
_________________________
John

Top
#202006 - 07/08/11 02:00 PM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Primer is certainly something to consider.

I've had too many joints fail, especially on the larger pipe. Oddly enough, the type of glue used, and the weather, seemd to be the biggest factors.

The 'electrical' glue is pretty thin; add a hot sun and lower air pressures at altitude, and you have a prescription for the stuff to dry much quicker than you can assemble the pieces.

Oddly enough, some of the 'plumbing' stuff - like the gray glue - has a heavier body and allows for a longer working time. Using primer also seems to aid the working time. The PVC 'cleaner' they sell (clear rather than purple) seems to extend working time as well. The 'cleaner' is nowhere near as aggressive a solvent as the primer.

I note that the plumbing code requires the use of primer. Naturally, we are not concerned about any 'leaks' in our pipe; it's the wire insulation that keeps the electricity inside.

Top
#202007 - 07/08/11 02:09 PM Re: RNC primer? [Re: gfretwell]
KJay Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA

Interesting topicÖ Out of habit, I use primer on all the NM pipe and conduit fittings I install, whether itís for pressure or just electrical wiring. Iíve never seen where primer was required, but I also donít really see where itís not allowed.
Thereís no doubt in my mind that it makes for a much stronger faster setting, joints that are impervious to water seepage. Granted with conduit, you may still get condensation accumulation inside, but at least there wonít be additional water leaking in from the joints themselves.
Unless you actually saw me using it though, you probably would never know I had, since I normally use the Rectorseal PR-3 clear PVC/CPVC primer.

As far as the Carlfex being cemented directly in FS box fittings, Iíve seen that done on dock wiring before and I would agree that is the strongest, most durable and watertight connection that can be made. It looks like it would make for much easier wire pulls as well.
Iíll bet the only reason Carlon doesnít get its Carflex UL listed for installation that way is because they would lose all that money they make for their required crappy Carflex connectors.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals