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#201808 - 06/24/11 10:00 PM 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets
Merlin Offline
Member
Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 170
Loc: NW Indiana
Can anyone tell me what the code is on a old home with 2 wire romex? I was in one today that someone has installed 3 prong outlets in some locations. The inspector thinks it needs rewired to meet code. I can't remember what the proper way to address this situation is.

Also, the bathroom has no outlets at all. Will one need to be installed to meet current code?

Thanks, Merlin.
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#201810 - 06/24/11 11:45 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
You can use GFCIs, add grounds or rewire.
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#201812 - 06/25/11 01:17 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The bathroom needs a 20A GFCI receptacle adjacent to the basin. You probably need the 20a small appliance circuits in the kitchen and the 20a in the laundry too if this is really an old house
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#201813 - 06/25/11 06:23 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Just to nit-pic my friend Greg this morning I know he meant to say the bathroom needs a 20a. circuit not a 20a. receptacle. The other option on the "3-prong receptacles" would be he can replace the receptacles with "2-prong receptacles" in some areas based on 406.3(D)(3). Sorry Greg, but I am in a feisty mood today.
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#201822 - 06/25/11 06:54 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6833
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Merlin:

What code did the inspector reference??
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#201824 - 06/25/11 07:15 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
George is right, you could just run one new 20a circuit and pick up other loads in the bathroom. I was just thinking about the fastest way to get legal. Usually in a "happy days" era house the bathroom will be on a circuit with whatever was close and not anticipating much load. There might only be a 1-15 in the light over the mirror. That was usually going to be an electric razor, maybe a toothbrush charger but that was an afterthought.
Then they invented the hair dryer wink
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#201832 - 06/26/11 02:24 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: gfretwell]
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
The Q of grounding becomes even more interesting when considering older nm's undersized grounding conductor, or having it installed via the 'Boston Backwrap' under the clamp of a metal box

Then there is the BX issue

In either case, it could be argued that a false ground is present

just because a meter indicates a grounding conductor doesn't mean it'll clear ground faults....

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#201833 - 06/26/11 07:19 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]
leland Offline
Member
Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Sparky, The undersized ground is something I never thought about.

How does one approach that? treat it as no ground?
The back wrap I have treated as none present.

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#201835 - 06/26/11 05:26 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: leland]
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Originally Posted By leland
Sparky, The undersized ground is something I never thought about.

How does one approach that? treat it as no ground?
The back wrap I have treated as none present.



well having done more renos that there is ascii , or anyone's patience to really ramble on about, i would suggect making the most out of what grounding conductors are present, with consideration to it's efficay


for instance, most backwraps can unwound , and terminated to the box / device / made a solid grounding circuit

it'll still be undersized, so i wouldn't count on it to clear a dead short, but this is where i've many times introduced the mighty (read; slices, dices, makes julian fries) AFCI

iirc, they have a 30ma threshold, not quite the pita a 5ma GFCI breaker would introduce on older cicuitry, but just enough to walk away with some level of confidence

install your two banger receptacles, and let the mice have at it...

~S~


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